City Council Workshops

0:00 (upbeat music) - Good afternoon, I'm Ann McInerney, Ogle Mayor for the City of Vancouver, and you're joining us for the Vancouver City Council meeting today is Monday, August 17th, 2026. And City Manager, I see that we have Housing and Urban Development Priorities in Scoring, and then we have the Arts Hub Plan. Any item you'd like to add? - Nope, we can get right into it, Mayor. - Okay, Sam, it's all yours. - Well, good afternoon. I'm Samantha Whitley, I'm the Housing Programs Manager, and I'm joined here this afternoon by Tasha Slater, our Senior Housing Coordinator. And thank you for having us here to discuss the 2027 HUD Annual Action Plan Application and Award Process, which will begin this October. We have some proposed issues and concerns

0:57 that Council raised during our May 2026 action plan process, and we'll be proposing changing application scoring and a new funding set aside for childcare. So our agenda today includes a look first at our 2024-2028 consolidated plan, how that was developed and the goals and outcomes that we've achieved so far. We'll walk through a revised timeline with a compressed staff review and plan development to provide the draft plan to Council in April and allow the full 30 days of public comment prior to the public hearing. We'll also review expected 2027 resources and set asides and updated priorities and scoring, as well as, like I mentioned, the $100,000 reserved for childcare businesses. So our consolidated plan is a HUD-required document that determines our funding priorities over a five-year period.

1:56 Developing this plan took more than a year and a half and required extensive participation from advisory committees, neighborhood representatives, service providers and subject matter experts. Council reviewed drafts, memos and workshops throughout this process and ultimately adopted the final goals and strategies that guide our annual action plan activities. There was a question in May about who was listed in our consultation requirements, so I just wanted to share this information briefly. HUD requires outreach across specific sectors through the CFR and we consult with over 400 stakeholders with each cycle, including the Commerce Housing Team. The action plan can't list all 400 agencies and stakeholders by name, so we populate the HUD IDIS database with representative examples of agencies that satisfy each required category.

2:55 So this is why some agencies like Commerce's broadband team is mentioned as being consulted while the Commerce Housing Team was not mentioned in the plan but is consulted regularly. These are our goals and outcomes to date and the goals were developed in 2023, which was a different environment and different market at that time. So since we've set these, the market conditions have obviously changed and several of our proposed five-year goals are pretty far off base at this point. So under construction goals, the rental units added or rehabilitated, new homeowner housing, that has been significantly impacted by the Build America Buy America requirements. This has driven up the cost and complexity

3:54 of using home funds for construction. So most developers choose to use the AHF Affordable Housing Fund resource instead. Last year, we approached a nonprofit with a 24-unit project and we asked them to accept home funds, but once they researched the Boba Cost Impact, the Build America Buy America Cost Impact, they turned down this funding even though they still have a funding gap for their development. And also it looks like, how did we ever expect to build 100 rental units with home funds? So I just also wanted to explain that if we put $300,000 into a 100-unit project, we would be able to count all 100 units on our outcomes. So that wasn't a wildly inaccurate goal in 2023, but we have not achieved any rental units with our federal funds to date.

4:49 For the homeless persons overnight shelter, during 2023, we anticipated that the city's bridge shelter, or maybe one of the safe stays, would use some federal funding over the coming five-year period, but that hasn't happened. Shelter support still has gone through the Affordable Housing Fund instead, just because of its ease of use. And this also does not include home ARP funding that is used for homelessness services. The homelessness prevention category, we actually are on track to meet our five-year goals of 250 people served through our homeless diversion program, but we found that there's a mismatch in how HUD defines this activity, and they require that direct utility or rental payments are made to a household to count as a prevention service. Our diversion program is used,

5:48 the funding all goes towards staffing, and they use other sources of funding for the utility or rental assistance services. And so even though it shows zero people served under homeless prevention, that's not really accurate in how we would determine that to be homeless prevention. So I wanted to give a little bit of a description about why these zero, zero, zeros are showing up over our last three years of services, and we hope that we can adjust our scoring and try to encourage some additional outcomes in these categories for our next two years of the plan. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Tasha to talk about some of the updates we're proposing. - Hi, this is Tasha Slater. So yeah, I will be talking about the 2027 application process,

6:48 going over the timeline, priorities, and scoring. First, I'll talk about the timeline. It was requested during our public hearing that we give council our annual action plan earlier so it can be revised after a public comment is received and closed, and while doing that, we also have to meet our 30-day public comment period that's required by HUD and give HUD the action plan by the May deadline. So you can see that we shortened a lot of staff time working on the action plan because we didn't want to shorten the time the applicants had to apply, and we didn't want to shorten the time that the scoring committee had to review. So there are a couple things that will happen because we had to shorten staff time. One of them is going to be that we'll have to start the action plan

7:47 before we actually receive the recommendations from the committee, so we'll have to start on that narrative piece kind of before we really know what we're funding. And then we also will not have exact amounts from HUD, so our action plan will be all estimates, and when we come present to you, it'll most likely be estimates. We typically get our entitlement numbers in April. So our expected resources don't tend to fluctuate too much, so year to year, they are about the same. Sometimes they'll increase, sometimes they'll decrease, but they typically stay around 1.7 million for CDBG and about a million for HOME, and then HOME-ARP was allocated a full sum, and we're estimating we have about 500,000. That number might increase a little bit by the time spring comes just based on staff time

8:45 that wasn't spent towards the program or programs that may not have spent all of their funds. And then that HOME-ARP specifically does have to be spent out by 2030, and it is in support of supportive services for people experiencing homelessness, typically in partnership with our safe stays. So our funding categories are split into two kind of main categories, funding set-asides and then competitive. Our funding set-asides were set either by HUD or our five-year consolidated plan that was approved by council, and so the homeowner rehab is a city program that we have, and our capacity building program is in partnership with the community foundation. Both of those are five-year programs that were approved.

9:41 Our section 108 loan is a 340,000 yearly payment to pay for the loan that we took out on 4th Plain Commons. And then admin and our CHODO community housing development organization set-asides are set by HUD. The CHODO set-aside is 15%, so we're estimating it'll be about 320. We're hoping that this can move into the competitive category. At this time, the city of Vancouver and Clark County both don't have qualified CHODOs, but staff are working to hopefully get a few, and then we can move into that competitive category and get applicants ready for that funding source. But for now, we just set aside 15%, and then if we end up, we hold it for two years, and then we move it into our entitlement amounts. Our competitive housing activities will be public service,

10:38 which also has a 15% cap set by HUD. Our rental assistance program, homeownership, and that home-arp homelessness support. We also have economic development, which is this slide. So our economic development is where we're going to see some changes. It's for micro-enterprise businesses only, which is five employees or less. Typically, in the last couple of years, we have funded programs that are prioritized based on the city's economic development strategy, which was also approved by council this year based on that 2026 Annual Action Plan meeting. We decided to pull out 100,000 for Set Aside. As a reminder, this is for community partners to provide technical assistance to business, new and existing businesses.

11:37 It doesn't provide vouchers or family assistance for child care, just that micro-enterprise technical assistance. And so any of our partner organizations that want to apply will specifically apply for a child care program. If they want to serve other businesses in either the priorities of the economic development strategy or other businesses, they'll have to do a separate application for that. So we're going to make it very clear which applications are for child care assistance and which applications are for other businesses. And then finally, we updated the scoring criteria. So this is kind of referencing slide five that Sam was discussing with all of those couple of zeros that we had. We moved five points from committed match funds to consolidated plan goals. So any applications that we receive

12:35 that meet one of those zeros or one of those categories that we don't have, we haven't met our goals yet, they will receive 10 points to help us meet those outcomes. The rest of the categories will stay the same, including the committee scoring. And I know this was mentioned during our annual action plan, so I just want to mention that all committee members sign a conflict of interest certification for each application before they score it.

13:16 - Okay, so after your feedback today, we will update the application guidelines next month and then plan to open the applications in October. We'd like to keep this October date because it aligns with the county's application cycle and it's what the partners have come to expect, applications availability after probably a decade of opening federal applications October 1st. That we'll do the pre-application and agency reviews in November. Full applications will be due in December, and then we'll take the months of January and February to review the applications. And we'll have presentations with each of the applicants in front of the housing advisory committee to help them complete their scoring, get any questions answered, and then put forward recommendations in March

14:12 when we will share the action plan with council at the same time that it's shared out for the 30 days of public comment. And then we'll return towards the end of April as soon as we can to have a public hearing, but still leave some time after that public hearing for any adjustments that might be needed before we meet our HUD submission deadline for the plan of May 15th.

14:40 And that's our presentation. - Thank you so much. Councilors. Councilor Paulson. - Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Samantha and Tasha for the presentation. I appreciate it. Sam, you mentioned that oftentimes the HUD money is not as attractive as other sources like the AHF affordable housing fund because of some of the stipulations that are attached to it. And you also mentioned that our bridge shelter and other shelters are typically using the affordable housing fund because of the nexus and the convenience of just using that fund. But there was a recent change in policy disposition around HUD funding, moving away from communicating an intention to move away from housing first

15:37 and to more of a comprehensive set of uses for HUD funding, which would be more inclusive of things like shelter, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm wondering if in light of that change, if our calculus about using the affordable housing fund for shelter versus using HUD funding for shelter might shift. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because your first comment was people want to use the affordable housing fund because it's more flexible than the HUD money. And if there was more affordable housing fund available because we were able to tap into HUD money for shelter, that could be a nice way of capitalizing on this change of philosophy from HUD while at the same time making more affordable housing fund available. So what do you think about that in terms of a strategic shift in terms of how we've been thinking about these funding sources? - Well, and I forgot to mention

16:34 that the Road to Housing Act that passed has told HUD that they need to review how they're applying Buy America, Build America. So we expect that that's going to make things easier. But I should clarify that the funding that's used right now for homelessness through AHF is for operations. And our CDBG and home funds don't really allow for that very much. I think you might be talking about continuum of care funds that have more staffing availability. But it could certainly be used for construction costs or maintenance projects that might be needed. - Okay, yeah, something to keep an eye on because it's sort of evolving from a federal perspective. And so how we've historically thought about using HUD funding versus how we might be using it in the future, seems like it could be changing. And so I'm interested, especially if the affordable housing funds are viewed as more flexible. If there are ways that we can free up

17:33 some of those funds using HUD funds in ways that are applicable and within the rules, it seems to make some sense. So, yeah, thank you. - Good point. Nope, okay. Looks like we're good, Sam. Thank you so very much. Let's go ahead and move into our arts hub plan. City manager, comments?

18:02 - Just welcome David Perlich, Kevin Kearns, and Stacy Donovan up here to bring the council on the overall process. - All right, good afternoon. I'm David Perlich, Director of Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services for the city. I'm joined today by Cultural Services Manager, Stacy Donovan, and Capital Projects Manager, Kevin Kearns. We're super excited to share updated concepts with you for the Vancouver Arts Hub. And in addition, we think we have a practical path for taking next steps towards realizing the potential of this opportunity. This project has benefited from great collaboration across the city, I think. That includes parks, recreation, and cultural services, along with general services, bringing together our shared expertise in programming, facility management, asset preservation,

19:02 and capital projects. And we've worked with experts in the room with us tonight. We're joined by members of the consulting team led by Opsys Architecture, AMS Planning and Research, and Framework Cultural Placemaking. Certainly important to note that we've had the tremendous opportunity to learn from people that are using the building now. So starting with the arts centered, our initial activation operator, that's been really a critical role in this process and understanding what the potential is for the building. And also many community members, folks involved in Vancouver's creative community have contributed their time, participated in workshops, provided ideas, and helped shape what we're presenting today. So what you hear today is a framework that's been shaped by the best ideas, we believe, from city expertise, professional research, real world experience, and the creativity of our community.

20:00 Let's see, next slide. Here's an agenda for today, and we'll talk about what we'll go over. We'll start with a quick overview of the recommended framework, how we got here, and how it was shaped by what we heard from the community. Then we'll move into the operating model, because as you know, to be successful, the city needs not just a good building, but a sustainable and effective way to operate it. And we'll walk through the proposed phase one improvements to show you how this can help support expanded use. And when I say walk through, back by popular demand, we'll try to take you through a brief day in the life to kind of imagine what it will be like if we move forward with these improvements. And then, of course, we'll close with cost schedule and next steps. So let's talk about the framework. Next sheet. The framework we were bringing forward tonight is a next step in a process that really has been underway for several years.

20:59 The original University study gave us the foundation. But since then, interim activation has given us the opportunity to test ideas, learn what works, better understand community needs, and understand what's unique about Vancouver and how we can apply that to the building. We've also learned more about building limitations. So that's sort of the good, the bad, and the other. But that has all been critical information that's helped us refine the plan. And of course, we've continued talking with community members, arts and culture organizations, current users, and people in Vancouver's business and creative communities. So this is not a speculative framework. We really believe it's a plan that's been informed by research, community input, and actually putting the building to work. The framework coordinates those lessons into two things that we need to move together. Again, a capital plan for the building and an operating model. I also want to emphasize that we have worked to build a strategy that addresses the key considerations

21:57 and establishes parameters for success, but also leaves space for continued innovation and community feedback. We'll talk about what that means during the course of the presentation today. So now I wanna do a quick recap of our community outreach. When we look across community engagement, there have definitely been some very clear and consistent overall priorities and themes. And we talked about that in our engagement with the Council on June 8th. And we heard from you and added that to our inventory of information. And so I'll briefly recap that on this slide and also share some more specific priority ideas that have been identified through ongoing engagement. And those are the things listed on this slide. And so just as a recap, people want a place where they can experience, participate in, and share the arts, whether that's through a performance and exhibit, a class, a cultural celebration,

22:54 or just spending time in a creative and welcoming space. They want opportunities for children and adults to learn and create. They want spaces that support artists and arts organizations with opportunities to learn about programs and services that already exist elsewhere in our community. And they want an arts hub to be a place that is affordable and accessible for everyone in Vancouver. These priorities point us towards flexibility. The community is asking for a place that can adapt, a gallery that can hold different kinds of exhibits, a performance space that can support different types of events, and multi-purpose rooms that can be used for classes, workshops, rehearsals, and community activities, maybe sometimes within the course of the same day or the same week. Certain aspects of the infrastructure, including programming spaces, need to be prioritized now to continue to grow and activate the building. Others, possibly like a cafe or outdoor performance space,

23:53 could evolve as new opportunities emerge and as the operating model moves forward. The flexibility of this framework serves as a guide for making investments over time that keep the vision moving forward and manage affordability. And so, we wanna talk about next, and I'll share information on the operating model development, so the same principle of flexibility that I just talked about really also applies, certainly, to the operating model for the building. In 2023, we presented an initial operating model, and since then, we've learned more and we've made changes. During the course of this project, our team has researched comparable facilities across the country, particularly focusing on those that include a city working with an operating partner or partners. We've also looked closely at what makes nonprofit operator agreements successful.

24:50 Within the memo that was attached to the agenda item tonight, we share that we specifically dived deeply into five comparable facilities, which all involve a city in a public-private partnership and offer a variety of spaces for arts and cultural organizations. Just to note that, those five facilities are the Clara Studios in Sacramento, the Center for the Arts in Eagle Rock in Los Angeles, California, Multnomah Arts Center in Portland, Soma Arts in San Francisco, and the Torpedo Factory Arts Center in Alexandria, Virginia. We've learned from what actually works. We've also heard directly from the current operator, interviewed 18 users representing 14 arts and culture organizations, and looked at how the building is being used today, including the types of activities the space is used, and importantly, how that activity has grown since initial activation began. There's a lot of data and information

25:48 that we've used to shape this. Basically, we know a lot more now than we did in 2023, so we're refining the approach. All this learning points to a model that I'll share in the next slide that balances city responsibility with the community leadership needed to truly make the Arts Hub successful. And so, wanted to highlight the proposed operating model that we're sharing. We see this as a true partnership, not a contract, a partnership between the city and a non-profit operator. Think of it as a shared investment with shared control, and each partner doing what they're best positioned to do. This would involve a single, mission-aligned non-profit operator who would manage programming, rentals, partnerships, and day-to-day operations of the Arts Hub. The city would retain ownership of the building and primary responsibility for major capital investments.

26:45 The city would also provide a defined level of operating support, establish performance expectations, and monitor results through an operating agreement. This gives us important balance. The city continues to be accountable for the public investment, and at the same time, the organization operating the building has the flexibility and the autonomy needed to respond to artists, partners, and changing community needs. And we're recommending a strategy to achieve this. This involves selecting the right operator, bringing them into the design process at a time when they can provide critical guidance on the decisions that we're making, and also work on an operating agreement that clearly defines how the city and the operator can work together over time. We think this is the right size model for the Arts Hub that reduces risk and gives the community a meaningful leadership role. I also want to emphasize that the word framework really applies here.

27:45 We've defined some of the key parameters and begun to work on developing key performance indicators based on the community feedback. We're also leaving space in the negotiation to ensure the plan is fully aligned with the operator's vision for the facility. Based, let's see, so based on the outcome of our discussion here today, we really think this is one of the key aspects of the plan that we need to move forward next on and begin later this year the selection of an operator, bringing them on board so that they're positioned to be able to provide that feedback on phase one improvements. - Awesome, this is Kevin Curran speaking, the project manager for the Capital Projects Division of the General Services Department. What I'm gonna talk about is the project itself, the renovation, and on this slide, we're showing the site plan with the building and the surrounding area. Outlined in the dotted lines are the areas of the site

28:44 that will be included in the phase one renovation. Considering earlier studies as well as input from the community, the operator of the interim activation and current users, the design team developed a vision for the building and campus. In addition to the building renovations, the vision includes better connecting the building to surrounding parkland and nearby amenities, increased parking capacity, and the development of an outdoor event space. Once we developed the vision, we then considered the phasing and identified the elements of this vision that needed to be developed in a first phase. The first phase is concentrated in the building and the pedestrian approach. The image on the screen sort of outlines the areas affected by this first phase. And we'll be talking about the details of that in a couple of minutes.

29:35 When we thought about the essential improvements, we prioritized addressing the building deficiencies, improving safety and accessibility, increasing capacity, and preparing the building to meet the needs of the users. This work includes improving accessibility of the site and the building. For example, repairing the exterior ramp and adding an elevator, upgrading the building structure to meet current seismic codes, updating the HVAC system to meet the new uses of the building and to improve energy efficiency, improving life safety and increasing building capacity by adding sprinklers, updating the fire alarm system, and making egress improvements, and adding restroom capacity by adding an all-user restroom. The next slides will show interior renderings of phase one. Stacy will take you through them, and then I'll be back to share the floor plans,

30:34 the project cost estimate, and the schedule outline. But before I pass it off to Stacy, I think it might be worth noting that though the images that we'll be showing will make it seem like we could just begin renovation today, the designs we're showing are concept designs. There's much more work to be done to develop the detailed designs that a contractor could build from. And this detailed design work, as Dave mentioned, needs input from the operator and the users. And once selected, the Arts Hub operator will become an essential part of the project team moving forward. Now with that, I'll pass it over to Stacy. - Thanks, Kevin. Stacy Dobbin, Cultural Services Manager for the city. So we've learned a lot from the creative community from what they've done already since the initial activation began in early 2024. The investments we are proposing now address the infrastructure needed to support the activity at a greater level by providing increased capacity, better accessibility,

31:34 improved safety, and spaces that can adapt to different users. So as we look at these images, I want to invite you to imagine a day at the Arts Hub. Let's start at the top left. You've just walked through the new multi-level entry. The space is open and welcoming, and you immediately see that things are happening all around you. There's artwork on display. People are moving between levels. Someone is arriving for a watercolor workshop, while a nonprofit is gathered for a board meeting upstairs. The new circulation makes it easier to understand where you are and where you're going, and the multi-level entry creates a visual connection to the activity throughout the whole building. You don't have to know exactly what's happening to feel invited in. Now we'll move upstairs to the lounge at the top right. There are people gathering between activities. A couple of artists are sitting together, talking through an idea for an exhibit. Nearby, someone is stretching as they wait for their dance rehearsal to begin.

32:33 A few people are sitting together after a class, continuing a conversation that started in the studio. This is an informal third space. It gives people some time or some place to pause, connect, and stay a while. And because the furnishings are flexible, the space can also accommodate programmed activity, like a small meeting, a pop-up market, or even a coffee cart. Now if you look at the bottom right, this is the larger gallery and event space. Today, the rotating walls have been arranged for an exhibit and live performance, with people moving through the gallery to experience the visual and performing arts together. Later, the furniture can be rearranged, and the same space can host a multicultural celebration, an artist reception, or a multimedia presentation without requiring a different room for every activity. And then we move downstairs, as seen in the bottom left image, to see a smaller, more intimate space, hangout area. These informal gathering areas

33:33 can make the arts feel like a community space instead of a collection of program rooms. That sense of community matters, because some of the most important things that happen here aren't scheduled. They happen when people meet each other, when an artist discovers another artist's work, when someone comes to a class and decides to come back for another, when a conversation over coffee turns into a new idea or collaboration. So when you look at these four images together, we're seeing a building that is active from the moment you walk in. Different activities are happening in different parts of the building, but they're all connected. People can come for a specific program, discover something else happening, meet someone new, or simply spend time in a place that makes them feel welcome and like they belong. So, let's now check out some of the programming spaces. At the top left, we have a studio theater. There's a band performing.

34:33 The movable seating has been set up to surround the performers and create a more intimate experience between the artist and the audience. Later, those same seats can be pushed back to create a space for a dance performance. Maybe on another day, this room might be filled with actors working through a theater workshop. Another evening, the audience might be here for a poetry reading. The important thing is that this space is ready to support the activity. It also gives us more opportunity to plan for the right future investments by learning how the space is used by the community. At the top right, a children's art class is underway. There are tables covered in paper, paint, brushes, supplies. Kids are making art together, and their joyfully messy work is beginning to fill the room. This is the kind of activity that families told us they want to see in the space, places where kids can be more hands-on participants and not just watching. And when the class ends, the room doesn't sit empty.

35:33 The tables can be cleared and reset for a watercolor workshop or a fiber arts meeting or a writer's group. At the bottom right, another multipurpose room is being used for an adult still life painting. An instructor offers insight as each person works at an easel to capture their unique perspective. Across the building, other people are rehearsing, meeting, creating, and gathering. That's the point of having several flexible rooms. We can increase the amount of activity at the same time. And then at the bottom left, we come back to the gallery. The exhibit has changed. The movable walls have now been repositioned, and the space is quieter and offers a more reflective opportunity to engage with the artwork. The space can accommodate different scales and types of exhibits, so the gallery itself keeps changing along with the community needs. And this is where all the pieces we've been talking about come together. Today, the Arts Hub is already supporting many activities.

36:30 Initial activation has shown us the community will show up. The opportunity we have now is to create a building that will help us do more with what we have and with the right infrastructure to support it. This means having spaces where rehearsal doesn't interfere with the workshop down the hall, where sound doesn't bleed, limiting what can be done in the room next door, or where resources are accessible and more spaces are comfortable for everyone in the building. Increased capacity isn't just about raising occupancy. This framework creates infrastructure that allows the Arts Hub to safely and excessively support more people and more activity. We're creating flexible spaces that can respond to the needs of the community today and give people room to do things we haven't yet imagined. We've already seen what Vancouver's creative community can do during initial activation. This proposal gives that creativity room to grow. So with that vision in mind, I'm going to pass it back to Kevin to talk about how the images we've just looked at

37:30 translate into the actual floor plans. - Awesome. Thank you, Stacey. The image on this slide here is the floor plan of the lower level of the Arts Hub showing minor changes from the current design. Most of the images that Stacey shared are from the upper level, and that's where the most obvious building changes will happen in the first phase. On the lower level shown here, there are some changes, but less dramatic than the upper level. Some of the changes to the lower level are those that respond to the new entry sequence, as well as added elevator and building egress. There's also a multipurpose room and shared workspace in the current loading bay, as well as some new dedicated storage. The multipurpose spaces are budged with minimal improvements and are expected to be used much as they are today for classes, dance studio, and the like. New walls will better isolate the activities, but beyond the central infrastructure,

38:29 the changes to meet the program needs will come from the operator and the users.

38:37 The image on the slide is of the floor plan of the upper level showing the significant changes, the new entry, the all-user restrooms, the multipurpose space, and studio theater. As you saw from the renderings, much will be changed on the upper level. A new mezzanine with elevator will be introduced to improve accessibility, circulation, and building legibility. New all-user restrooms will be added to support increased capacity. And a studio theater and three dedicated multipurpose spaces will be created. Even with these changes, much of the floor will continue to operate as it does now, as a multipurpose event and gathering space, but with enhanced functionality. Within this open area will be a dedicated lounge space that can become a cafe in the future and a transformable gallery area. Similar to the multipurpose spaces on the lower level, the multipurpose spaces on this floor can be used for a variety of uses,

39:35 but will be only minimally improved through the renovation project. The studio theater will include infrastructure to support performances, but will not have all the bells and whistles. It won't have risers or a stage, and only half the space will have a lighting grid. More targeted investments will be needed in the future as the community learns what is wanted to maximize the use of the theater and other spaces. So, what does it take to deliver on the priorities that we've just talked about? We've developed a concept level estimate that has an emerging project level of confidence. This puts the phase one construction costs at 14.7 million dollars. Of that, approximately 12.4 million dollars is for the essential building improvements that we've been discussing. Accessibility, seismic upgrades, life safety, HVAC and related infrastructure. About 2.3 million dollars are the enhances

40:34 to support the program uses, like the creation of the studio theater and other program spaces. When we include the roof work that's already been completed, along with design permitting contingencies and other soft costs, the phase one total project investment is approximately 22 million dollars. As part of phase one, we won't be completing the vision that I mentioned at the outset of Meat Talkin'. There's approximately 13 million dollars of potential future investments that would further develop the site, building and program spaces. Those future investments include things like additional parking, the outdoor performance area that I mentioned before, window replacement around the building, and a more complete build out of the spaces for specific uses. We recommend waiting on those investments until we have an operator in place and we've got experience with the renovated building. That's the discipline behind this phased approach.

41:31 Invest now in the areas where the need is clear and wait for other investment in areas where more information can help us make better decisions later. On this slide, we have sketched out the process to develop and deliver the renovation we've outlined today. If budget is approved for this project, once an operator is chosen, we can begin the detailed design. The detailed design needs input from the operator and users. They will be integral to the development of the designs. We estimate the detailed design will approximately, it will take approximately one year in construction to take about the same. However, it's worth noting that this schedule will be affected by upcoming decisions such as the operator selection and the choice of project delivery method. The schedule will also be affected by the details of the eventual design as well as specific plans yet to be developed for keeping the building operating during construction.

42:29 The timeline currently anticipates the operator selection in 2027 and phase one construction beginning in 2028. - All right, well, we know we have a building that has already demonstrated demand and that the community has demonstrated excitement about the initial activation. We believe we also now have a coordinated capital and operating framework that takes all of that information and turns it into a practical path forward. Council supports this direction. The next steps will include, as Kevin laid out, advancing the project through the biennial budget process, including both capital and operating components. And also as mentioned, we will move forward with the process to procure a nonprofit operator. Council will have an opportunity to review and approve that agreement. And of course, as we move through all these next steps, community engagement will continue. So this is the point we'd like to hear from you.

43:29 Are you supportive of this framework that we presented today? And have we addressed questions and feedback that you raised earlier or questions you have tonight? And is there anything else important that we've missed? Also want to say, we don't have to phone a friend. We've got consultants here, so we can provide a wide variety of information for you. - We see all of them Dave, thank you so very much. Councilors? - Thank you, Mayor, and thank you to the three of you. It's exciting to finally, in my opinion, be talking about this as a project in a more concrete fashion. So I'm excited with moving forward, exciting where we go. Two things that come to mind, and these are questions, not directives.

44:27 So you've shown us some drawings today, and a couple of years ago, we were shown drawings. And can you give some high level, 'cause I know you could spend an hour probably talking this, but some high level of what are those changes and how are they informed? - I'll take the first shot of that, 'cause I've been here throughout. I think, thanks for the question. In the previous plan, there was a lot of dedication of space to maker spaces and sort of individualized use of the building. That's still a sound strategy. We know that that's a revenue generating tool, but what we also learned is through activation and continued community engagement, how much value the community has from a more flexible space that can be used a variety of different ways

45:23 and host some fairly large engagements, events, and activities for the community. So I think the main thing that's changed is we've backed off as much individualized maker space and really kept most of those program areas more flexible. Now, within those large spaces, we still believe that there's a need for maker space that could be both shared studio and more industrial space as well as individualized, dedicated space. And there's space to do that at a smaller level than what we previously anticipated, and we wanna work through that process with an operator to sort of find the right balance. - Anything else to add or share? - A big and obvious change is really what we learned from the current operations, and Dave alluded to it, but it's that open space in that center, making sure that that is a multipurpose space

46:23 that can become bigger and smaller, depending on how we use the adjacent spaces. And the other bit that really wasn't there beyond just the change of the smaller studio spaces is the theater, that really that's been something that had always been brought up as an interest, but even more so with the activation from the people who are using it now, looking for a presentation space, and recognizing the limitations of that central space without really having some acoustic isolation. So having that space in the back corner allows us to have spaces where we can have presentations that allow you to have something going on at the same time in another adjacent area. So those are some of the big changes. But there's a lot of details too that, again, you're right, we could talk for a long time about what's changed. Beyond those kind of big programmatic issues, we've gone to a lot more detail, 'cause that's really what happens as you evolve the design,

47:20 is that was even a pre-concept, what we had done previously, now this is what we call a concept design. And then the next ones get even more detailed as we go forward. - Great. So in that, I'm glad to hear we're not getting rid of maker spaces, 'cause that's one that I've been pretty excited about going through. That being said, I toured a library with a pretty extensive maker space back in early 2020. And it might be interesting to check in with them six years later, and I'll pass that along to you. The other one that I thought was interesting is you talked about repurposing the dock and load-in spaces.

48:13 So just what are thoughts around that load-in that is inevitable with a space like this? - Yeah, you go ahead. - Awesome, no, thank you for bringing that up. We show it, just for simplicity of showing it, that as if it was taking that whole space over, it won't take the whole space over. We still need a load space. But if you know that back of the building, there's two loading bays, since it was really for the operation center for the library. So they really had a lot of stuff coming in and out daily. So they had two loading bays. We'll probably lower that to one and use that other one for kind of messy work, you know, 'cause it's both big and industrial space and separated with a masonry wall from the rest of the space which allows it to have noisier and messier sorts of activities back there. So most likely, it'll take over one of the two bays.

49:08 - And corollary with that is typically, that's a different kind of elevator needed. And has that come into the conversation? - It has come into the conversation. The details, we haven't worked out exactly the elevator. The new elevator would be the one, you know, because that's where our chance to upsize it is, but it's in the front of the building. So we have talked about making sure that it's sized to be able to handle this kind of equipment, but it would be kind of a dual purpose elevator. It would still be the principal access for people coming to the building as well as serve this function for artists and others to bring in equipment. - Great, thank you very much. Looking forward to it. - What a wonderful opportunity that you've taken four years and worked with all of those groups to really understand the capacity of this space that has been a true value

50:08 in making some of these decisions. Good job. Councilor Paulson. - Thank you, Mayor. Thanks for the update. It's exciting that we're continuing forward and getting ever closer, like seeing a timeline, something we haven't seen in a while. A few of the notes that I took that resonated with me, affordable, accessible, adaptable, the three A's. I think that's a good sort of north star for what we're doing. And I think as the mayor just said, we've shown especially the adaptability by incorporating what we've learned through the activation so far into our updated design concept. And I expect that that will continue. I really liked the idea of changing to more of a public private operating model where we are essentially the owner of the facility, but have a shared relationship, a mutual relationship, not a contractual relationship with a not-for-profit

51:05 who is taking care of the day-to-day decision making. And also, at least after phase one, helping inform subsequent phases of investment into the facility as we continue to learn, as we have done moving forward.

51:25 I like the idea of, for phase one, really prioritizing where, investing where the need is clear. A lot of the things that you mentioned are sort of table stakes, a good HVAC facility, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But also honoring what we've learned so far in terms of some of the usage and adapting the usage, as you've mentioned, a little bit away from, 'cause our previous thinking was really wanting to emphasize sort of revenue generating activities. And that was the reason for the emphasis on maker space, because the view was that could be a revenue generating. Well, I think what we've learned during this time period where it's been active is that there are other ways that revenue can be earned. And in many of the spaces that we're now showing are also revenue generating activities. They're just different kinds of revenue generating activities. But they're also the revenue generating activities that have a proven demand within our community.

52:24 And we don't quite know yet what the demand for maker's space might be or might not be. And so that can be an evolving conversation as time goes on. And I want to, I really appreciate the fact that we're going to bring the operator into the conversation before we move forward with final design making decisions, because I think that's a proven best practice on other facilities that I'm aware of, as well as we've used comparable processes to inform some of our recent investments in the community. Along the fourth plane corridor, we had a robust process by which the community was involved in the visioning and the vision changed through that process. And this is another example of where we can do that. My hope is that through those conversations, we can come to an agreement on the optimal way to continue accommodating the current uses, whether at this facility, which I think is the current preference, but that might change or in alternative locations

53:23 during the phase one investment. 'Cause the last thing we want to do is disrupt what we've created. We want to build upon it. We want to honor it. We want to sustain it and then over time, continue to grow it. So thank you for the work that you continue to do. Excited about where we are at moving forward and especially supportive of the changes that have been made through what we've learned. So thank you. >> Councillor Harless. >> Yeah, thank you for coming back to us with all this information. Really exciting and having been at the Arts Hub a number of times for different kinds of events. It's so well loved and I'm excited for the next steps. I just had one, you know, look forward to those next steps about the budgets. I'm not going to ask those questions. I'll wait until then about, you know, possible additional revenue sources and everything.

54:22 But one thing that wasn't mentioned that I just wanted to make sure is already part of the conversation with the design is the kitchenette spaces and sinks and whether that's, you know, for the arts or just these community-centered sort of workshops that, you know, we don't need a commercial kitchen but it's something that I see happen at the Arts Hub currently with that little kitchenette there that people use that a lot to make the coffee, prepare, you know, the doughnuts, whatever, that that is included. >> Absolutely. So I didn't highlight it but it was through both talking to the users and just broadly community engagement, it came up strongly as a requirement. So there will be a kitchenette, but you're right, not a full commercial kitchen. We realize that there's a lot of those that we can use, the forthcoming commons amongst others, but a need for a localized one here

55:21 to serve both the staff and artists as well as visitors. I think that what we've talked about beyond that is potentially in the future, but not now to have a cafe that would build the infrastructure for that now, I mean, just the plumbing. And then if we were to expand it to a full cafe, we'd have, you know, future expenses, investments required, but we will have the kitchenette. >> Councillor Perez. >> Thank you. Some of my questions have been answered or asked previously, but I have two follow-up questions. You asked what other information would be needed and I'm not sure if you have this now, but I would love to get a better understanding of what is that estimated amount needed to sustain this facility after we get up and going.

56:18 And then you mentioned we want to get it ready to support our community, which is exactly what we need, the robust third space where people can just drop in and bring their own little cross stitch and sit down and not feel obligated that they have to reserve or pay, but they're able to come to that cafe, have a cup of coffee. So how do you prepare the public to be able to utilize this facility at the rate needed to sustain it? >> Yeah, I'll jump in there. So in the 2023 reuse study, there was a recommendation, there was an analysis that said the city as primary operator could potentially operate at a subsidy of about $400,000 a year. We believe that we can have robust use of the building through a nonprofit operator agreement in the same ballpark

57:18 and you don't want to operate on a ballpark number. So we're refining that discussion analysis right now to set better parameters for the budget process. And that'll be really part of the negotiations with the operator as well. Like what are the opportunities for really robust engagement and what is their pro forma look like? So we're going to work on that and give you more information but I want to say we don't think that the change in operating model has changed that analysis much and it's important how we pay for it as well and that's part of the budgeting process. So that's the first answer I think the first part of your question. And again, I think we've heard from the community and council that this should be a community space. And so that's going to be central to discussions with the operator about how we both mutually support that and succeed at really creating both an opportunity for drop-in but also a place that everyone

58:18 in the community feels welcome and invited. And those are intentional actions and that'll be a key part of the discussion as well because we've heard that from the community very clearly. - Yeah, and it goes back to your point council member Paulson where you said this is about accessibility, adaptability and affordability, right? So that was like, how do we get it to the point where we had this vision of the public using it and we're not subsidizing more or it's just not being used the way that we had envisioned. So that's why I wanted a little more clarity on the numbers from a budget standpoint because of our projected budget in the coming futures and just to be more aware of what our intended approach is for this. - I'd like to add a comment with our consultant team help. We really dove into some of these agreements

59:17 that work elsewhere. And so we're absorbing a lot of that information to make sure that the intention for the facility is really realized. I would say at a high level, not saying exactly how but saying what you need and what you wanna see through key performance indicators and in areas of focus that'll be a part of the ongoing conversation with the operator. We're absorbing and borrowing as much as we can to really make sure that that intention is built in to the agreement. We know it's not the right approach to say exactly what to do and how but we need to make sure that we empower a great conversation around what we collectively wanna achieve. - Yeah, in particular, we had the presentation on the facilities master plan a few meetings ago. And so there was a question of what are our complete range of assets and commitment to that. So that I think it's also a piece of the larger puzzle. Thank you.

1:00:13 - So Dave, in looking at all of this, you've researched you have the who, what, where, when, why, and how. We're looking forward to next steps. We'll work with you with the budget submissions and we're excited about the entire project. Let's keep going on it. Thank you so much. All right, council, we'll be going into executive session to review the performance of a public employee according to RCW 42.30.1101G. We'll be in there from 5.30 to 6.30. We'll grab a quick bite to eat, be back at 6.30 for our regional or our regular council meeting. We're just, we're done with workshops. Thank you.