Clark County Commission on Aging

0:00 [MUSIC] Good afternoon. I will call to order this public meeting of the Clark County Commission on Aging. It is Monday, May 18th, 2026, and my name is Ellen Rogers, and I am the chair of the commission. Meetings of the Clark County Commission on Aging are held in a hybrid meeting room. This means that commission members, guests, and members of the public have the option to attend in-person or remotely. For members of the public attending remotely, other event participants cannot see or hear you unless you are acknowledged by the commission chair or staff and your audio is unmuted. I will announce the agenda items as we move through the meeting topics in case you do not have the agenda in front of you.

0:58 An opportunity for public comment will be at the beginning of the agenda following a few business items. We will start with a roll call of commission members who are present for this meeting. Commission members, please say here after I call your name. As a reminder to all of you, please do mute yourself when you are not speaking. Mike Anderson. Here. Julie Donovan. Here. Cass Friedland. Here. Donna Mason. Here. Kenden Masterson. Here. David Moss. Here. Ellen Rogers is here. We have one, two, three, four, five, six. We have eight members here, so we do have a quorum. Seven. Oh, and I cannot count. So we have seven members here,

1:56 and we do have a quorum. So we will now move on to business items. The first item is approval of today's meeting agenda. I will take a motion for approval of the agenda. So moved. Second. Is there any discussion on the motion? I will request a vote. All in favor of approving the agenda, please say aye. Aye. All those not in favor, please say nay. Hearing no nays, the motion will pass to approve the agenda for today. Moving on to the meeting notes, I will take a motion for approval of the April work session and meeting notes. So moved. Second.

2:55 Any discussion about the meeting notes from April? Okay. I will now take a vote on whether we approve the meeting notes for the agenda. All those in favor of approving the meeting notes for April, please say aye. Aye. All those not in favor of approving the meeting notes, please say nay. Okay. The motion passes because we have more than a quorum because it was unanimous. We will now move on to the next item of our agenda, general public comment. We will request that any comments made are completed within three minutes to accommodate time for all of the speakers. We also request that before you make a comment, you state your name for the record. Are there any guests in the room that would like to make a comment?

3:52 There are no guests in the room who would like to make a comment, although I will note that we do have a guest. So that is excellent. Then Susan, for online guests, can you please provide instructions on how to make online public comments? Absolutely. If you're using a computer, tablet, or smartphone, if you would like to make a comment, please raise your virtual hand. There are instructions on how to do this on the screen. Typically, the hand icon is located towards the bottom of your screen, but you may need to click on the icon that looks like a circle with three dots in order to see the raised hand option. For anyone on the telephone, please dial star three on your phone's number panel to raise your hand. Staff will be able to see hands once they are raised and will request to unmute you one at a time.

4:50 I do not see any raised hands. Okay. So this concludes the general public comment portion of this meeting. Next, we will move on to our moderated discussion which will focus on housing. We are joined today by guests from Bridge Meadows and Cathedral Park communities and Cass will be our moderator for the session today. I'm going to hand the meeting over to Cass at this moment. Thank you so much, Chair. Good evening and thank you-all for joining us today for the third of four panels focused on the exceedingly complex issue of housing for aging adults in Clark County. To underscore guest speaker conclusions from our first two fireside chats, it is clear that the need for senior housing

5:50 in our county is rapidly accelerating. By 2035, nearly one in four people in Clark County will be over the age of 65. Today's conversation will focus on really interesting housing models that are percolating and blooming across the river in Portland. We will explore two housing models, Bridge Meadows and Cathedral Park co-housing, both of which are dedicated to the creation of affordable housing that encourages intergenerational community connection and belonging. As Clark County explores ways to ensure affordable housing for the rapidly growing aging population, we are most interested to learn about these advancements in innovative housing. It's an honor to welcome our panelists, Brooke Gray and Alicia D. Lashmut.

6:50 How did I do, Alicia? Alicia is on there. First, Brooke Gray, COO of Bridge Meadows, will discuss how her organization meets the urgent need for affordable housing placements for foster youth, adoptive parents, and elders in the state and region. Next, Alicia will tell us about Cathedral Park co-housing, Portland's first mixed-income, inclusive, multi-generational co-housing community. But before the presentations begin, it's my greatest pleasure to tell you more about our esteemed guests. Brooke Gray has worked to engage community in complex social issues for over two decades. She led a statewide foster care initiative in Oregon for a decade, then shared the model in other states before joining Bridge Meadows.

7:50 As a former foster parent, she understands the importance of collaboration, innovation, community, and courageous action to address the needs of the most vulnerable in our communities. As the COO of Bridge Meadows, Brooke now builds, manages, and inspires community building across three generations through the organization's intergenerational program that blends community connection, here we go, affordable housing, and social services to serve kids in foster care, their caregivers, and elders. She and her husband live intergenerationally in Clark County. Alicia DeLashmut is the founder of Board President of Oregon Nonprofit,

8:47 Our Home Inclusive Community Collaborative. Alicia has over 24 years of community involvement as a disability inclusion and housing advocate and is a proud mother of a strong-willed young woman whose diverse interests include basketball, free toes, and opera. Her daughter experiences Moat Wilson, a rare genetic syndrome that will require extensive support throughout her lifetime. Her daughter, Neva, has been a strong influence on her mission to promote inclusive life opportunities for families and individuals who also experience disability. In 2002, from a career in architecture and design, Alicia changed course to disability justice and advocacy, a 2007 graduate of Oregon Partners in Policymaking,

9:47 and a 2017 graduate from the Institute on Development and Disability Leadership in Neurodevelopmental and Related Disabilities or LEND program, through the Oregon Health Services University. She is founder of the Cathedral Park Cohousing Community, Oregon's first mixed income, affordable, accessible, and integrated cohousing community that welcomes individuals and families with a range of income, age, and ability. Alicia represents OHICC as a member of the Inclusive Housers Network, a national network of organizers facilitating innovative inclusive housing solutions. Alicia served as a program coordinator for the Northwest Down Syndrome Association Kindergarten Inclusion cohort, and has made numerous national presentations as

10:45 a strong advocate for inclusive communities, education, and life. She's an active advocate and parent mentor who believes that inclusion of all is necessary for a vibrant and healthy community. Brooke and Alicia, the community on aging truly looks forward to your presentations. We have provided some questions to ask you at the conclusion of your presentations. But please know that COA members may also enthusiastically jump in with their own questions. At the end of COA question and answer session, we will entertain questions from our audience. So without further ado, Brooke. I'm so pleased to be here. So thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to get to share a little bit more about

11:41 Bridge Meadows because it is a pretty complex nonprofit when you think about the different intersectionality that it holds. But Bridge Meadows, you can go ahead and do the first slide whenever you're ready, Amy. Bridge Meadows has three affordable housing communities in the state of Oregon, in Redmond, Central Oregon, and then in Beaverton and North Portland. Last week, we broke ground on our first community that will be in the state of Washington in Tacoma. We work to both create and inspire intergenerational community. And that means that we really are working at the intersection of three pretty complex social issues. The first being that we're working with children or youth who've been impacted by child welfare in some capacity. The second is that we're working with their caregivers.

12:38 Often in a first year of foster care, a child will bounce up to seven times. And so we have found that by providing stability and support for families, we actually help to keep families together. We work primarily with caregivers that are headed towards permanency. That means they're already headed towards adoption or they've recently been reunified with their family. And then of course, the third generation and social issue is working with elders who are 55 and above. We call them that because that's what they've been asked to be called. And so we have actually two-thirds of every community is elders that are 55 and above. I'm ready for the slides if you have them, but this isn't them. This is the website [LAUGH] Thanks, Amy.

13:34 >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Yeah, yeah. So our communities have three generations that are living side by side. So they're zoned actually as senior housing. And two-thirds of our community members are elders living in one bedroom or two bedroom apartments. And then we have townhomes, where we have families who've been impacted by child welfare that are living. All have limited means, and all are under affordable housing. Yeah, you got it. Thank you, so I'm already on slide four of your game. Thank you so much, perfect. Okay, so to give you an idea of scope, we have 113 units between these three communities. 211 individuals are served, 92 are elders,

14:32 53 are parents or caregivers, and then we have 66 youth. How it ends up getting divided across the communities is that in each community, we have nine to ten townhomes that are serving families. And then around 30 apartments for elders. We do not do matchmaking, but we do intentional community knitting and community building across the three generations. And so I'm gonna share a little bit about where we've landed as our secret sauce at Bridge Meadows. Next slide, our model is really based on an understanding that there's a Venn diagram that leads towards stability. One is housing stability. We need people to know that they're safe and secure and their housing's not going anywhere. The second is social services and supports. And most affordable housing focuses on these two things.

15:32 We're focused on affordable apartment rent, and then we're focused on providing supports when that's needed. This third component is really what's unique about Bridge Meadows, and that's the community knitting work. We really have a mantra that the community is our client, and that the community is the intervention. So it isn't just about providing services or providing housing, it's about how community helps to care for one another, and that's what we found. We do surveys of our community members every year. Just so you have an idea, when you look at national statistics on elders in particular, you find that around 50 to 60% of folks would report that they have purpose and social connection. At Bridge Meadows, that's at 84%.

16:26 We also have a beautiful model because community is caring for one another. The elders that are in our communities are aging in place and staying there much longer. We've had multiple folks that have just recently moved into memory care, but have been cared for by their neighbors for five to ten years, before even needing to make that leap. The second component of Bridge Meadows is really these four things. This is our theory of change for the organization. We believe how you actually design spaces, the knitting of community, the social supports that we all need, and housing stability, those four components are what ultimately leads to greater well being across all three generations. We have 100% graduation rate, high school graduation rate for

17:24 our youth who are at Bridge Meadows. And our caregivers report 70%, report feeling connected and supported within the community as a whole. So from our view, the question is what is well being? And for us, that's resilience, that's belonging, that's flourishing, and it's stability. There's different evaluation tools that we use for these different things, but ultimately well being is the barometer that we can use across all three generations that we're serving. Going to the next slide right after that, Amy, if you don't mind. I shared that community is the intervention. The tagline that we use all the time, every day in our work, is that our goal as Bridge Meadows team is to do things with the community, not for the community. This is not transactional.

18:21 And so we're always looking for ways that we engage folks in doing the work. And I'm gonna share what that community knitting work looks like. But once a month, we do a happiness hour, for example, where everyone can come. There is no alcohol, but there is good food and play. We usually play bingo together. We do not just provide that meal and have folks come. Everybody's contributing in some way, bringing their favorite recipes, etc, to share with the community as a whole. Our client is the community. And you will see, as I even show some pictures of how we've designed the space, that our goal is that the space is excellent. Because we believe that dignity, worth, and value actually impacts how people show up in their own lives and in community as a whole. So every single apartment space or town home,

19:15 every community space is not the bare minimum of what affordable housing requires. We do a lot of private fundraising to really ensure that the spaces are speaking dignity and worth. Community building, as I shared, is the whole ball game. So going to those four components, design first, there's a lot of different philosophies around affordable housing design in the US. And they really are focused on answering one of two questions. How do we house the most people? That's one. And the second is, how do we actually create spaces that speak dignity, worth, and value over folks so they can live wholehearted lives? Neither is bad, actually both are in need. We need to house people, and we also need connection. But you can see how that framing of that question actually informs how you design a space.

20:10 So this first is affordable housing, sorry, back up, there you go, thank you. You're having to just intuit where I'm going, thank you, Amy. The first on the left here is a picture of a plan for affordable housing in Portland. It's come a long way from the Caprini Green Days in Chicago. But still, it is a whole city block and we're trying to fit as many folks in as we possibly can. This bottom right is Bridge Meadows in North Portland. We also have a whole city block, but each of our communities are circular. They feel like a hug with a big green meadow in the middle. These small design decisions actually impact how community integrates with one another, next slide. There's been four big priorities in the design that we've created. The first is that we use Earth Advantage design standards.

21:08 That's not LEED, it's the less expensive version of that, but we're using sustainability in our design. The second is what's called inclusive design. Every apartment, every townhome is ADA approved. If somebody isn't coming in a wheelchair or coming in a walker, they may need it someday and we don't want them to have to move. So we think about that from the beginning. Even our hallways are double the width necessary for a regular ADA so that a stroller and a wheelchair could go side by side with one another. Our design is trauma informed as we get well. We're using color, we're using warmth, we're using furniture even that helps to speak calm over the space. And then the design is actually informed by the community. So every time we go to build a new one, we talk to the one we just did. It's getting better and better every time as a result of that.

22:06 And they feel like they have voice and agency in the process. I'm gonna skip ahead to the second big component of our work, which is the program and the community knitting work, which, yeah, perfect. Thank you, yeah, you're doing great, thank you. So what we've realized is that community takes time. It takes time within our families, it takes time for ourselves, right? And so each of our sites is really at a different development in that community building. Redmond has only been on board for five years. We opened it in the middle of the pandemic. So we like to say it's actually a little stinted. Beaverton is nine years old and then North Portland is 15 years old. What this means is that each community has its own personality. So a community in a more rural area is gonna feel different than North Portland, which is gonna feel different than the suburbs.

23:03 And so if you go to that next slide, Amy, what we've really articulated here is that the needs of the community change over time. Now, in Redmond, where we've just gotten started, essentially, the community's five years old, they really have big questions about safety and security. In Beaverton, they're asking a lot of questions about fairness and the understanding why the reason that decisions are made. And they're starting to have conflict and trying to work through, how do we do conflict together? Even at our holiday tables, we have conflict within our family. So this is actually conflict and repair is one of the best ways that we can do community building work. And then North Portland's been around for 15 years. So they have a really strong group identity, but the challenges are more complex, but they're really wanting to be involved in decision making.

23:58 The program itself is based on this idea that if we knit community together by creating shared experiences, that we actually can help folks to feel a stronger sense of purpose and belonging and connection. So that is what we do. We start with shared experiences. That might be a happiness hour or art. It might be Farkle or Tai Chi. These are opportunities that across all three generations, folks can come and participate in. And we then help to build as well one on one support. So if someone has taught piano for a lot of years and we have a kid that's wanting to learn it, we'll pair them together to that work. Cooking tends to be one of our most central ways in which the generations can connect. And each month we launch a community calendar that always includes community meals.

24:57 It includes seasonal celebrations and then therapeutic circles. We don't call them that because no one would come if we told them it was therapy, but it is and by generation. So we have a wisdom circle, we have a parent circle, and we have a play circle, kid circle. And then we have community led events that happen all the time too. Somebody could say I wanna start a book club and they do. This community knitting is partnered with the one on one supports that we offer. Every community has a licensed clinician that is on site. And so their role is the community knitting work, but they're also providing mental health support and resource support for individuals as that comes up. It looks like counseling, it looks like case management, it looks like advocacy, and it looks like a lot of conflict navigation and collaborative problem solving with folks. The last thing that we believe really leads to well being is housing stability.

25:56 And you have all probably heard of Maslow's Hierarchy of Need. But the opposite really of that is that when you look up affordable housing in the US, there's not a lot of positive acronyms connected to it. There's always a shortage, it's always lacking. And so our focus has actually been what if we look at this through a little bit of a different lens, through the opportunities that result in this space. And so Amy, if you go to the next one, Maslow's Hierarchy of Need, it's hard to read on the screen, reflects that you really need your psychological needs and your safety and security needs met in order to even be able to enter into a relationship. And so we really have viewed housing through this lens, that if we approach housing and even their interactions with a property manager through the lens of being trauma informed,

26:55 that it changes how people can show up in community as a whole. We've operated with an abundance mindset instead of a scarcity mindset and done a lot of creative problem solving even with how we fund our model. So affordable housing has a low income housing tax credit that's connected with it, there's a lot of red tape and it's really challenging. It's around a four year development phase from the point you decide you want to build affordable housing to the point that you can actually open the doors. Then you have investors and others that you need to bring to the table. So we've done that with all three of our communities, but we've also done a tremendous amount of private fundraising and are exploring some other ways to share the model. And we've learned a lot in the process, I'm happy to answer more specific questions. But we've learned that community knitting is constant, just like with our own families, that we can't change everything.

27:52 But we can impact more than we think if we're willing to think outside of the box and try to interweave complex issues and solutions. That trust grows at the speed of relationship. And that goes for our staff and it goes for community as a whole. And that transparency and accountability really strengthens trust. So we have a lot of conversations within our communities around what we're doing, why we're doing it and get feedback all along the way. Our team, we say a lot like we're accountable to you as a community. So if you don't feel seen or heard or cared for, then we're not being successful in the work. Humans develop and change. And so our programs and partnerships need to too. A lot of nonprofit programs get really set on this is the thing we do and the reality is that things are changing all the time. And so we're fluid as well. Our community deserves our best and so we fight for it every day.

28:49 And every role that touches the community is critical. The person who has the best pulse on the community is the housekeeper or the maintenance person. And then lastly, as I've said, the community is the intervention. We have three communities currently, a fourth that we've just broken ground on. We have three more that are in waiting and we literally are getting emails every week asking how people can do this model. And so part of what our organization is really exploring is how do we actually share so that it's not dependent on the low income housing tax credit timeline or our staff capacity, but that others can be able to do this work as well. >> Thank you so much, Brooke. If we could just hold questions to, pardon me, first give Alicia a chance to present.

29:43 And then open it up and I know we're gonna be really enjoying that conversation. Thank you, Brooke. Alicia.

30:04 [BLANK_AUDIO] >> That will be helpful, thank you. [LAUGH] I am Alicia deLashmet. I'm the founder and board president of Our Home Inclusive Community Collaborative. If you would shift to the next slide. But first, before I was board president and founder, I am first and foremost, Neva's mom. So this is a picture of my daughter, Neva. This is when she was 11 years old. This is when I started the Cathedral Park co-housing project and started forming the nonprofit. She was 11 then, she's 24 now. So things have moved forward. This is a very grassroots, family-based project and

31:03 attempt at a new model of housing. So it has taken a while. Our goal is to, of course, replicate and scale, but we're still working on the first community which will be coming soon. So first and foremost, I'm Neva's mom. Next slide. I'm also Jane's daughter. So my mom is in her 80s. My grandmother was in her 90s when we first started this project. And I am the, next slide, proverbial meat in the sandwich generation. So I have people on both ends that I am providing care for. And I myself need care. So how do you build community around a multigenerational group of people? So we're all there to support each other. Next slide, please. So as we were starting to figure out what we wanted to do in our community, we reached out to Dorinda Schubert over at Bridge Meadows.

32:03 She was one of the first people that I talked to about how do we build everything that Brooke has been talking about, that reciprocity and that belonging and a real sense of inclusion and community. And we looked at things, a lot of retirement housing and housing for the elderly and didn't see reciprocity and the excitement and the purpose for that. Next slide, please. We also looked at housing for people who experience disability. And when I was a kid growing up in the Midwest, this is actually the Glenwood State School, the facility for the feeble-minded is what they called it back then, that was in my small town. And a lot of people with intellectual and developmental disability, like my daughter, were housed there. And we heard endless stories of abuse and neglect and issues, both with the people who worked there.

32:58 As the care providers and definitely the people that were placed there for their lives. So we knew we didn't want to do that. We were also, then next slide, looked at what does housing look like for people with lower incomes, so the segregation that people often experience based on low-income housing when you don't have people with mixed incomes around and somebody to give you a hand up and out. Next slide, please. So kind of the old model was separate based on deficits, you know, group, shelter away, so institutions, deficit-based thinking. And there's a lot of hidden costs to that, both to society in general, so systems dependency, individual pride and growth and connection. So those are things that we didn't want to have happen and we were trying to look for a different way. Next slide, please. And I promise you, things are going to perk up here.

33:57 This is the depressing part of the presentation. Things will get better. So, you know, the problem is we've got a public health crisis. So isolation is seen as a serious issue. The risk factors are as high of early death as obesity or smoking. Forty percent of folks feel like they're not connected, are lonely, and feel isolated. One in three seniors or people over 65 live alone and not necessarily by choice. And I can't even read my slide, 30% risk an earlier death because they don't have people around them that are there in their community. Next slide. And we really acknowledge there's a big difference between caring for someone, so providing services and caring about them, having that connection and having, you know, being there as a community. Next slide.

34:55 So we wanted to build something different. So don't build something for them, build something for us, for all of us. And we wanted to really, you know, mine the strengths and the values and the shared interests of people, not the deficits. We wanted to make sure that we intentionally included elders, people experiencing disability, people with lower income. We wanted to build like they build over at Bridge Meadow. Let's build everything with universal design principles so we can age in place. There are no stairs in any of our units. Every space is accessible, whether you use wheels or your best friend does, or if you do later on in your life. We are all temporarily able-bodied. So we want to be really thoughtful about, you know, how do we include the most people possible using trauma design, trauma-informed design, deaf and hard of hearing design,

35:50 visually impaired, neuro-diverse design, and universal design principles. We really want to have a mixed income community, so a combination between market rate and affordable housing, generational, integrated, you kind of get the idea here. You know, so neighbors with different economic realities, lives, experiences, all coming together in a community. Next slide. So in this process of dreaming what, you know, the world could look like for Neva, my daughter, and for my mom, and for myself, we realized that we were going to have to form a nonprofit to help sort of bolster this movement. So we started our Home Inclusive Community Collaborative. Our mission is to promote, support, and develop inclusive and diverse communities. As I mentioned, we believe that it's a stronger community if it's not just one type that you're serving.

36:46 You're matching disability and aging and affordability in one community, much like what Bridge Meadows does with bringing together the multiple generations and putting people together so that they have purpose and belonging and a real social connection. And we want to stay at scale and replicate this. We did come out right during the pandemic, so we are a few years behind the schedule that we thought we were going to be. But we are moving forward, and we're pretty thrilled that things are happening. So next slide, please. So you've heard me mention cohousing. We really sort of settled in on the cohousing model. For those of you that haven't heard of cohousing, it's a model that comes from Denmark, also Israel and the kibbutzes. So it's a group of people that come together with intention and with shared and stated values.

37:41 There's a lot of different types of cohousing, and there's over 200 cohousing communities in the United States now. There's almost, I think, 40 that are in the Portland, Oregon area, including Eugene and Hood River. So we have a bunch of communities here that we can learn from and help model after both what worked and what didn't work. But there's different types of cohousing. You know, think about the different neighborhoods in Portland. They each have their own vibe and kind of their own flavor. So you can be very eco-based, or you can be all-senior, or you can be multifamily. You can be based around a specific spirituality. You can be all self-sustaining, where all the food is grown and all the work is done by the people that are in the community. But we are Oregon's first, and as far as we know, the nation's first affordable, accessible, and integrated cohousing. Next slide, please.

38:37 So this builds a web around people so that everybody has support with each other. It's, you know, people that have disabilities, have people that are able-bodied, everybody knows everybody's name. It's a way of connecting and being stronger in that web. Next slide. And in order to do that, we built a web around ourselves because I'm the dreamer of this idea, but I've never built multifamily, multimillion-dollar housing before. So let's get the smart people in the room. Let's get the dreamers and the people that can make it happen all together. So we have a developer, Owen Gabbert, who has built several examples of middle-sized, mixed-family communities in Oregon. We have Malum Architects, and like what Brooke was talking about, they understand how architecture

39:34 and the built environment can bring you together or it can keep you apart. So you think about like the suburban experience where you drive down the street, and you hit your garage door button, your garage door opens up, you pull into your garage, it closes behind you, and you go into your house, and you never interface with your neighbor. Or you go into one of the big high-rise community building, you know, condo buildings or apartment buildings where you walk into the big lobby where there's a couple little sofas that nobody ever sits on there, and you kind of walk right through that, get into the tiny room, which is the elevator, where nobody feels comfortable talking in an elevator, and then you go down the hallway and disappear into your doors. So that's something that keeps people apart. So we wanted to be really thoughtful on how do we build the environment so that we have maximum exposure to each other, both sight lines and opportunities to sit and gather. We have a community kitchen and a dining area and lots of places to hang out.

40:33 But then we also know that people need their privacy. You know, you want to have your own space. So we make sure that, you know, the architects are providing privacy in individual spaces as well. And then, of course, we have the nonprofit that we formed, and really the function of the nonprofit is to help with the affordability aspect. We are a home ownership program, so we didn't go the LIHTC route. We are going things like lift funding and federal home loan bank funding. And I'll tell you a little bit more about that. But so this sort of trifecta of the professionals at the table are making this happen. And then it's the people that are going to live there. We build community first before we build buildings in cohousing. So the people are getting to know each other now, so people move in as friends. Next slide, please. So this is Cathedral Park cohousing.

41:28 Like I mentioned, we are Portland's first mixed income, affordable, accessible, and integrated cohousing community. We're 23 homes in the Cathedral Park neighborhood in North Portland. We have a half an acre of land, so we're high density urban development. 14 of our homes, so 60%, are going to be affordable for households between 50 and 80% of AMI. 20% of our homes are preferred for households that experience IDD, have somebody that has intellectual and developmental disability. And that's about five homes in this 20%. None of the homes have stairs, so they're all built around universal design principles. And even though we're a four story building, we have an elevator so everybody can get to everybody. We're working with Proud Ground, which is a community land trust here in Portland. Once the units are built and sold, they will take over and manage them to keep our affordable units affordable in perpetuity.

42:27 And we are set to break ground early next year. Next page. So who lives here? Like I mentioned, we've got nine market rate for sale units, 11 that are at 80%, two that are at 60, and one that's subsidized down to 50%. And I mentioned all of these other pieces that are in this as well. Next, next slide. So we did this little vision board. What would your life be like in the day of a life of a Cathedral Park co-housing member? So, you know, you get up in the morning, you pop open your laptop, either in your own unit or come down to the common house, maybe walk over to Forest Park. It's just over the St. John's Bridge. Take a long walk in Forest Park. There's a community garden right next to us. Check on your peas. Say hello to a neighbor. Maybe go out to coffee. Maybe do a little paddle down the Willamette over at Smith and Bybee Lakes. Come back home where the community has put together a big spread of deliciousness.

43:26 Say hello to your neighbors. And then maybe pop into St. John's for a nightcap and dessert. So it's sort of one of the ways that your day can go. Next slide, please. As I mentioned, we started 50 million years ago in 2013. And we are now working our way to bring the last five of our market rate members together. And that triggers our construction, where we pull our construction loan and start construction and move in in '28. Next slide. So we have raised over $5 million to date. It comes from a variety of funding sources, including the Oregon Legislature just gave us a $1.4 million award in their lottery bonds for affordability. We have about $2 million in lift funds, another million from the market rate home presales.

44:22 So we do have a combination of foundation funds and private money. The people that are going to be living here also contribute. So they have skin in the game, so they speak. We have about a half a million from the Fairview Trust, funds from the Cooney Foundation, OCF, Metro. We are up for $2 million from Federal Home Loan Bank and another two and a half from Portland Clean Energy Fund. And then the remaining of that will be our construction loan and the residual of the presales for the market rate units. So the affordable units are made affordable through these programs and the market rate units. All of the equity comes from the members that are going to be purchasing those units. Next slide. So right now we're gathering our neighbors. Like I mentioned, we have five more units. So if anybody's looking for a place, we've got units available. We don't have a wait list. Come tell your family, tell your friends that this is a super cool thing that's happening in Portland.

45:20 We're in the gathering members phase, our neighbors phase now as we finalize the rest of the subsidies. Next slide. And we did our cute little QR codes here. If you want to learn more about Cathedral Park co-housing or the nonprofit that supports it, OHICC, please feel free to look up our websites. Be in touch. We do twice monthly information sessions for people that want to be in co-housing or learn more about us. Please feel free to pass our information around. Support our capital campaign. Advocate for us with affordable housing funding. Share this story because your social capital is so worth everything to us and explore partnerships with us. Next slide. And that's it. Thank you very much. Look forward to answering questions. >> Thank you so much, Alicia.

46:16 I have to say that Bridge Meadows and Cathedral Park co-housing are a sell for my heart and my soul. To hear, you know, the intention, the thoughtfulness, but also thinking about the fragility of humans and about putting people together in really meaningful ways. Thank you so much for sharing your stories. I think maybe we'll just open it up for questions and then we'll see if we get to those pre-written questions beforehand. So please, Mike. >> Hi, this is Mike Anderson. Quick question for Brooke. Where in North Portland is your community located? >> We're in St. John's over by New Columbia. >> Okay. The reason I ask this is I lived there for eight years in the St. John's area as I went to the University of Portland.

47:14 So I was wondering for both of you, I'm very familiar with St. John's and Cathedral Park. Have you contacted the university to see if they have some potential to help you support your communities? I know they have -- I went to school there 50 years ago. And since then they've developed quite a social service mantra. And I didn't know if you've made contact with them because I think they potentially could aid in some areas of social interaction as well as possible internships for university students that are in social services. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mike. I can answer for us. We have worked with UP on a couple of different things. We actually have found most of our interns through George Fox or Portland State because of the social work program there.

48:13 And so that's our normal -- our usual connection to internships. I think you're actually hitting the nail on the head of a really interesting issue or opportunity rather for us as an organization, which is this question about volunteers. Because we are there to try to create and knit together community relationships, there is often a question for us as an organization but also from the community around how can we volunteer to help? And we want to work hard to facilitate relationship between kids, caregivers, and elders. And be careful about how we introduce additional relationships, especially those that might be a little more short-term or transactional. And so what we've landed on is two things. One, we have a lot of volunteers who come to help with one-time events. Like we do a big back-to-school summer bash.

49:12 That's a great opportunity for volunteers. Otherwise, we look for smaller cohorts of folks that might have a specific interest, like really want to support with your community garden, which just like Alicia, that's one of the heartbeats of all of our communities. And then we are connecting them with a real need. So it's always a little bit of an interesting dance with partnership in general, with what are our needs, what could the community bring, and how do we marry those two together? It's a broader answer to your question. >> I have a question. This is Ellen. How do you get started? Like how do you pick a place? You mentioned Redmond, Oregon. I was just there this weekend. And I looked up where you are, and I was like, oh, I know exactly where that is. That's a beautiful location right on the edge of the Dry Canyon.

50:10 But how do you get started with a community like this? >> Yeah, for us, we're getting inquiries all the time, and so we're trying to always balance where it's located and the kind of goodwill in the community as a whole. What's been interesting is that aside from Tacoma, every property has been donated to Bridge Meadows, which is unheard of, I realize. Tacoma was the first one where we actually had investors that helped to actually purchase the parcel of land. So that is, if somebody's coming with a large donation of land, that certainly pulls a different lever. In general, though, we're looking for property that's located close to public transit, close to the school, and has some walkability for the community members.

51:08 A lot of our folks don't have cars, and so that's really been our focus. But it is a marrying of multiple things, including the LIHTC funding or investor funding in a location. And our goal is to really have some hubs in different regions. So we have Redmond. We are having some conversations with another community in Central Oregon now so that we'd have kind of a hub, yeah. >> Alicia, would you like to join in? >> Yeah. We chose our space because it did have access to amenities, transportation. We didn't necessarily have to have a car. We didn't want to be isolated out in the country where some cohousing groups decide that they want to be more farm-based, but we wanted to have an opportunity for people to have a connection to the broader community. Something that that does as well is it acts as we call it sort of sneaky advocacy,

52:06 where if you see a group of people living together that are a range of age, income, and ability, you think, oh, it doesn't have to be housing or tucked away. So just being in front of people is a really important way of being advocates. So we wanted to be in a community that was welcoming as well. We want to contribute back to the community, but be visible and a part of that community. >> Thank you. >> All right, hi, this is Kenden. Thank you both that this has been my favorite Commission on Aging meeting. I think that was just really great to hear about. My question is if this is possible, because I would think that this is impossible, honestly, if I didn't see some examples of this happening, what are the barriers? Why are we not seeing, you know, 50 of these popping up every month if this is possible?

53:02 I'm curious, what are your limitations beyond the obvious funding? But yeah, what's the barrier if this can happen? Why aren't we seeing more of this? >> I think that's a great question. And we approached some of the affordable housing developers, the CDCs, and we got a lot of -- we've always wanted to do mixed-income housing. You know, we want to do this kind of housing, but our boards are concerned with the risk. We don't have the investors that are willing to take this risk. There's no programs that are specific for this. So it's weird. It's different. It makes a lot of sense, but it's a little -- like it doesn't fit in any box. So I got a lot of go do it so we can point at it and show that it works, and so then we can do it later. So -- and I also got the saying of the first one through the windshield has it the hardest.

53:55 Which is not a pretty sign, but it is kind of that we're doing something different. We're bucking the system. We're not -- we're doing something that is very grassroots based around what people are wanting versus what is set up to be funded. So lobbying for more flexibility in affordable housing and for mixed-income housing and making it so that investors aren't freaked out by this type of housing, making an investment pool available and a rotating fund available. Talking about this is what we want to see and lobbying for that with your representatives. We're tired of the same old systems-based stuff. It's up to us to make that change because they aren't going to do it for us. We get to be the squeaky wheels of the type of life that we want to see exist. So that's been -- that's some of the things to change as we go forward.

54:52 And the fact that Brooks Group, you know, the Bridge Meadows exists and that ours will exist, that is part of the okay, now I can see it, now I get it, it's not so weird. >> I think that's true. I just would like underline, like snapping over here, I think honestly how our systems are set up is for also one generation or one social issue. And so when you start to interweave them, the amount of internal bandwidth that you need to navigate multiple systems simultaneously for community is overwhelming. And so that would be my first answer. It really is a bandwidth question. So one thing, fun fact for us is that we receive funding for the work in foster care. The child welfare world is where our founder, Dorinda, and myself have both come from. We've never received a dollar from aging.

55:46 Yet 80% of our work is with individuals who are aging and 80% of the needs are actually with folks who are aging. So to just try to get funding from there to do the work while also maintaining the child welfare funds or whatever is a massive undertaking. The other thing that I'd add is that once you get into the affordable housing world, so now we have aging and we have child welfare and now we add affordable housing, the cost to build are about 30% more than if you were to do at market rate. And then you also are going through a whole bunch of requirements with low-income housing, tax credit, et cetera, that makes it harder. And so the amount of work to do this as a nonprofit and cost up front, you have to do all two years of pre-development work on your own dime before you ever see money back from

56:42 that, makes it really prohibitive for a small organization to do that work. It makes it easier for a large developer who's mostly doing market rate to add that to their portfolio. So the way the system is built does make it more complicated. A bunch of questions. For both of you, but probably primarily, for Bridge Meadows, one is, are all your residents, is it mixed income or is it just -- Yeah, really good question. So all of our units are affordable housing units. So we don't have any market rate, although that is a dream. We have space set aside for that. We have not done that yet.

57:39 How the state of Oregon requires, as well as the state of Washington, is that when you do affordable housing, you have certain units at certain percentages of area median income, and so they range. Some of our units are 30% up to 80%. How that looks translated by geography or by the percentage really varies. We have a unit right now that's been very hard to rent that's at 1,800 because it's a town home for a family in Beaverton. That's going to be vastly different than a unit that's in Redmond of the same size. But even so, it's an 80% unit, and it's really competing with market rate at that point. Do you have to -- to live in one of your units, do you have to have been traumatized? No. Okay, because I -- your pyramid and just different comments you made, it's like, okay, you had

58:36 to come with a trauma. With the families that we work with, they are all connected to child welfare in some way. And so, yes, we have an MOU in Washington with DCOIF. That's how we'll get referrals for families. The elders, we're marketing it just like any other affordable housing. And then with the elders, what happens -- and this is a question for you, too -- is what happens when they need a higher level of care? Do they have to move or is there a provision for caretaking? Yeah, we have some elders who have had caretakers that are in -- that come into the units. It's independent living, so that's where a family member would be stepping in to help to make those decisions, but we've had caregivers -- we have some now that are regularly supporting individuals and then others where they are -- have needed to shift for a higher level of care.

59:35 And we're very much the same where we call it bring your own independence. So if you need a care provider, whether you have a disability or you're aging, what is your circle of support? Who do you have that can help you with the daily activities of life? Neighbors are there to help support you with, "Hey, I hear you're not feeling well. I made some extra soup," or, "Let me get extra groceries for you because I'm heading to the grocery store," or, "I'll walk your dog," or all of those natural neighborly things that when you know each other and you feel comfortable with each other and you trust and you feel safe, those things form and those natural supports form. And if it comes to the point that, you know, a family member or somebody in the community says, you know, "Bob really is needing more support than what we can provide," does the family -- is the family able to step in to take care of that or his other supports, or is it now time for, you know, any kind of home ownership at some point you'd make that decision of, "I'm no longer safe in my home"?

1:00:35 But we are versed in having hard conversations about disability and aging and conflict and growth and humanness and the messiness of all of that. So we have a way to talk about that. And it's not just that somebody's going to flounder on their own. You have a group of people that are looking out for each other. So when that time comes, it's a much smoother transition with care and support versus some sort of traumatic horribleness of, you know, "Bob's been inside for three weeks and nobody's seen him." So there's just a lot more natural support and connection that's available. >> And this is my last question, at least for now, is I know you're both familiar with the Scandinavian models where college students will live in senior facilities and in exchange

1:01:27 for just being good company, helping in different ways, maybe driving, so forth. And that sort of follow-up on Mike's question, have either of you looked at figuring out how you might be able to do that kind of arrangement? >> I can speak for us. We definitely have had some exploration with assisted living facilities. Actually, we're wanting foster youth transitioning out of foster care to live in those spaces, as well as college campuses who want to do senior housing on college campus. So I think there's a lot more conversation about that and a lot more funding, quite frankly, within the private sector to think about some creative solutions like that. We have not explored doing it and building it ourselves yet, but it is a dream. We'd love to explore more. >> And we're in the same position, and we need to get this thing built first.

1:02:26 And then there are lots of ways that we can be creative with, you know, partnering with, like you said, assisted care facilities for some of their care and, you know, bringing people in and joining their parties and having, you know, connections between different organizations, U of P as well. But as one of our members is want to say, let's just get the damn thing built, and then we can get creative for all these other things. >> Yeah. Hi. This is Julie. I have a question for you, Brooke. You touched on this a little bit about the elders and the community being really supported through that knitting of the community together. Have you, in your experience, seen that they get to live independently in their own place for longer than they would have had they been somewhere else? >> Yeah. Absolutely. Without question. And one of the projects we really would love to do is actually to interview the adult children

1:03:25 that aren't there because there's so many testimonials from family members about how helpful it's been to have the community around their parent as well. We have one individual who was struggling with dementia and lived at Bridge Meadows for almost five years with that diagnosis before needing an elevated level of care because her neighbors were taking care of her, making sure she got to appointments, that she was getting up in the morning, that sort of thing. >> And that is also very true of multigenerational cohousing or cohousing in general is people get to age in place much longer because you have people around you that are connected. >> Yeah. >> Hi. This is Dave. I'm struck a little bit -- well, there's a -- I'm all over the place here.

1:04:22 There's a community in Vancouver, I don't know what it's called, what I call the alphabet streets. I think it's, I don't know, around S or T. It's a complex of about eight houses in a square. Are you familiar with it? >> Yeah. I actually -- I did a little research beforehand and I was finding one, too. Is it rooted? Is it rooted northwest? >> I think so. >> Okay. >> And it's -- I believe the people who move in there agree to some sort of a cooperative arrangement to keep it clean. There might even be -- there's not a common kitchen. I think they all maintain their independence in that respect. The nice thing about it is, is that those are small homes. Look like they're all little, maybe one bedrooms. Is that -- have some -- that seems like it's very similar notion to what you do, both of you for that matter. There has to be some cooperation there for that to work. And I don't know how they got the land and I don't know how it's funded.

1:05:20 I don't know whether it's a -- whether they own it or rent it or what. I don't know any of that. So -- >> Yeah. I can speak to what we've learned here. It's actually a really tender space, the -- how you ask people to be connected and involved. And the reason for that is that fair housing law makes it so that we cannot require engagement. So we can't require that you volunteer. We can't require -- >> Cannot? >> Mm-mm. Cannot. Because it can be viewed as discriminatory, like we're actually saying you cannot live here because you don't want to be in community or you don't want to do X, Y, or Z. So all of the rules that we hold people to have to be in line with their lease agreement. That said, from a program perspective, we never want people signing up for something they don't know what they're getting into. And so we have a really thoughtful way in which we onboard folks when they say they're

1:06:20 interested in an apartment, then we're talking to them about what you're signing up for. And I actually had a gal that opted out a few months ago, and that was a win. I much rather you decide you're an introvert that doesn't want community before you do this because you're going to be frustrated if everyone's in your business, you know. And we have commitments that we all agree to. We start every gathering with those commitments, we use that as grounding, but we can't not let somebody move in just because they don't like one of the commitments. Does that make sense? So that differs from the safe state communities where there's a requirement that they submit to a number of things to make that work. They get the space, but they have to agree to support. It's different. Mm-hmm. Separate. Separate notion. Yeah. Is it possible that, you talked about building a new facility, and obviously it's nice to have a brand new place to move into. You can design it, make it the way you want to.

1:07:18 Is it completely rule out the idea of an existing facility? Alicia, what else do you think? You're not easy to find something like this. That's a unique space. Yeah. Well, cohousing has popped up where three neighbors buy houses together and tear down their fences. And they just, you know, they share meals and resources and lawn mowers and childcare and that sort of thing. So, you know, you can, we actually looked at buying an existing building. We blew out of our budget by about $6 million during the pandemic. And it was a really rough time. We didn't think we were going to be able to move forward. And obviously we've since figured out how to do it, but we looked at existing buildings because you could buy them for about 50 cents on the dollar of building new at that time. But existing buildings come with existing people and displacing people to build community seems sort of anti-typical. So we decided to sort of wait for the cycle to change, but yes, you can, you know, when

1:08:14 a house comes for sale on your block, tell your friend, you know, and start that process of building that type of community. We do something where before people decide whether or not they're a match and we're a match with them. We do a two month explore period where people get to know all of our legals, our financials, our drawings, our people, our vibe, our culture. We also make decisions with a sort of a management way called sociocracy. It's some people do consensus decisions, but then people can block a decision and kind of get stuck. Sociocracy is a lot more fluid and you know, yeah, you could do this. Sociocracy is everybody has a round and the mantra is if it's safe enough to try, it's good enough for now. And then you come back and revisit it in an agreed upon time. So it's a lot more flexible. So that's, that's some of the ways that we, I don't want to say weed out people, but they

1:09:14 decide they opt in, you know, and weirdly enough, co-housing is great for introverts because you have this ability to come together, but then you can always like, it's time for me to go home now and your home is right there. And maybe you come back to the party wearing your fuzzy pants, you know, you don't have to drive across town and commit, press 4A, you can pop out and have a quick cup of tea and go back home. So it's a really nice balance between, you know, again, that private and public life while still connection to community people. This is Mike again. Have you made any attempts to find property or a place in Clark County? I thought I'd mentioned that. And if you have, is there any way that the commission could support you in looking for

1:10:12 opportunities or talking to city councils? Thank you, Mike. I know that there's been a conversation in Clark County years ago that I think with the pandemic probably slowed down. So we're always open to conversation. What I will say is that most of the time it has been folks coming to us with a, we have an idea, we have a desire, we have the land, how can we make this work? And we need that kind of local sponsorship and advocacy in order to make it happen. Always open to consider. This is Dave again. How do you, how do people find out about you? Is it all word of mouth? For us, it's a tremendous amount of word of mouth.

1:11:06 There's a lot of co-housing supportive communities, Federation of Intentional Communities. There's Coho US. We do a lot of marketing and classified ads. The Universalist or Unitarians, the UU church, seems to really have the same values of what we're doing. So we reach out through them. Along those lines, you might consider the Friends community as well. Friends community. You might consider the Friends community, the Quaker community. Yes. We have a couple, some of our members are Quakers. So yes, absolutely. I think our biggest challenge is people that aren't familiar with co-housing. So how do we reach out? We've tried advertising through OPB and some other sources as well. It's again, until you start to see it, you don't really know it exists and you don't know you can want it.

1:12:05 It's cracking that nut of, "Oh, this is a possibility. Cool. This is the kind of thing. I've wanted to bring eight of my girlfriends together and do, or my family and friends." So it's just getting the word out through things like this is a wonderful opportunity. You mentioned OPB. What was their response? Expensive. Really? Yeah. It's very expensive to get an add up. We honestly didn't get a ton of response. The Unitarians have been, if you're a social worker, a Unitarian and an introvert, that's the trifecta we found. There's a whole bunch of them around. That's awesome. Yeah. Wonderful. How you get the word out is a wonderful question and again, through word of mouth, tell all your friends. Wonderful. And I think we'll finish with Kendan asking a question and then a few final comments and

1:13:02 move on to asking those perhaps online or in the audience if they have any questions. Thanks, Cass. This is Kendan again. Question for you, Brooke. I love this slide about the different communities and those that have been around longer versus the newer ones and things like safety and then fairness and identity. I'm curious, is that anecdotal? That's just what you guys have seen or was that something that was forecasted out? Have you forecasted that further? Because again, it is so new. Just wondering about what does this look like in 20 years and yeah, I'm just curious where that came from and if that's something that's forecasted out into the future. Yeah. I think it's important that whole sociology portion of the slide show, so there's like six more slides about that, but it's based on a couple different models in social work in particular. One is the Tuckman group model and the other one is a developmental lens.

1:13:58 And so yes, we can forecast, but what's missing from that is that over time as a community ages, it goes through different series of development, right, till it's into maturation. But anytime there's a disruption, it could be a global pandemic. It could be a personality moving in that's strong enough. It can have a whole community regress into a lower level of development that you have to rebuild up. And so we see this cyclically. We had a conflict, you know, at one community a few weeks ago that has created this moment of disruption that we're now, we're back, we're kind of back to the regular, the phase we were at previously. So we can see that over time, but we're also, I would say like overlaying that, we're also seeing the needs shift as a community ages.

1:14:53 So we had elders moving in that were 55 to 65 in Portland that are now 85 and their needs are different. And so we're, we're learning now about that as well as we grow. Are you a social worker? I'm not, but... Just play one on TV? Mm-hmm. Okay. I'll fake it. Thank you. Oh, thank you both so much for your wisdom and your expertise. And I can tell you, well, I don't know if I can speak with everyone here, but we have to put together a small group that tries to seed this idea here in Clark County because we just spoke with the county counselors last week to give them our annual report. And there was a, there's always seems to be a great interest in thinking about new models that are going to be percolating through. So we, group, we have to really think about this, but thank you so much. I'd like to pass it over.

1:15:52 I think Ellen, we're going to be maybe, or, or, you know, just open it up for, for other comment. I guess that's the question. Does anybody have any questions? Did you have a question? Our audience member, would you like to come up? Yes, please. You can sit there. Just if you can identify yourself, that would be excellent. Sure. Good evening. My name is Bob Friedland and it's been a real pleasure to have witnessed this. I did have two questions that are somewhat related. I think one of the big areas that's most important to those in the developmental and intellectual disability communities are self-advocates.

1:16:49 And often self-advocates do not have a full network, but they also have an AMI somewhere around 20% of the national or the local estimated needs for income. And that relates to another question, which is, what if the annual income suddenly falls for anybody that's within a community? Are there mechanisms in place to help those individuals? Thank you. So, Bob, you are 100% right. We at this point aren't able to subsidize our units deeply enough for somebody on SSI. That would basically be, you know, we have an HOA as well, and it is a mortgage home ownership situation.

1:17:45 What we can do is if a family has a person with a disability, a child with a disability or an adult, that family can purchase the unit, rent it back to their person with a disability and leave it to them in their trust. So when they pass, they then have an asset that they can, you know, can have. So Social Security does not count your home or a vehicle against your allotted $2,000 in your bank account that you're allowed at any given time. So unfortunately, we're not able to subsidize deep enough for home ownership directly, but that can kind of build assets in a person's life. And also, you know, just the stability of a community that knows you and even if you don't speak, knows to say hello and knows who you are and what your needs are and that you love Fritos and football and opera and have you over for those things is what we

1:18:45 find such a value, but we haven't cracked the nut yet for deep affordability. Although, let me do another caveat, we do have a member that is looking at purchasing a unit and renting it out. So that's an opportunity if you are able to purchase at market rate and then have the personal wealth and the values to rent it below market rate, that opens it up for that kind of opportunity. So we're looking at all different ways of making this more affordable for folks. One of the preloaded questions I think was actually around one of the biggest challenges in this space and you hit the nail on the head with what it is that the Oregon Housing Community Services here at Washington Department of Commerce sets the AMI for each area median income for each zip code that changes every year.

1:19:41 And especially for seniors who are on fixed income, those often do not match up. And so our challenge this year in particular was Social Security went up 1.8%, the governing body for affordable housing was pushing a 9% rent increase at each of our communities, which required a lot of pushback and healthy discussion because they're looking at the investment and the financial sustainability and we're looking at the people. And ultimately, they allowed us to not increase rent as much as they had recommended, but that takes a tremendous amount of advocacy to get to that place and that won't always be the case. So the second thing that we're really building, and this is part of the balancing act for us as an organization, is do you build more? And we certainly don't want to build more at the expense of the communities that we have.

1:20:40 And so one of the biggest needs is actually for rental assistance. There's not as much of it as there needs to be, and especially for our communities. Most of our folks don't have vouchers either, and so this is, it's them, it's them. And so we're really looking at building a small grants program to help with rental assistance so that they aren't forced out because of rent. Thank you for coming and being part of our public, Bob. Susan, is there anybody online who has any questions or wants to make any comments? There is someone online, so if you are online and you'd like to make a comment, please raise your virtual hand. There are instructions on how to do this coming up on the screen. And for anyone on the telephone, please dial *3 on your phone's number panel to raise your hand. I do not see any raised hands.

1:21:39 Okay, so I think this concludes our fireside chat. I want to say thank you very much to Brooke and to Alisha. Did I say it right? Thank you. So I just wanted to say thank you very much for your time. It was, what a great conversation. Thank you very much. So this wraps up our agenda today, so I'm going to adjourn the meeting. Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:22:34 Thank you.