City Center Redevelopment Authority

0:00 All right, welcome to the City Center Redevelopment Authority Board meeting for May 21st, 2026. Could we start off with roll call? All right. Board member Friend. Aye, ma'am. Board member Anderten. Present. Board member Pisca. Present. Board member Slick. Here. Board member Copenhaver. Here. And board member Fazio. Here.

0:56 And Richard Cropain let us know that he would not be here today. Okay, so could we have a motion to excuse Dick, please? So moved. Any seconds? This is Heather, I'll second. Okay, so we can move. So Kevin, all in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. So Dick's excused. Good. Okay. Next item is the approval of the minutes from the March 19th meeting. Do I have a motion to approve? I move to approve. A second? I'll second. Okay, any discussion? All right, so all in favor say aye.

1:52 Aye. Good. Okay. Minutes passed. With that, we can move right to the executive director report with Patrick. Oh, do you want to do the agenda? Yes. All right. So we have a motion to amend the agenda to move the Main Street Promise project basically to number five, item five in front of the multifamily tax exemption renewal. Can I have a motion? I move to amend the agenda to move the Main Street Promise project before the multifamily tax exemption item. I'll second that. Second. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Okay, good. Thank you. So now we can move to Patrick. Thank you, President Fazio. Good afternoon, board.

2:48 Board members, good to see you after a month off. I guess I'll just start with that. I appreciate everybody's kind of flexibility as we amended or changed the meeting schedule. So everybody knows we're kind of going to go on an alternate month schedule. So our next meeting will be in July. And I shared with you when I sent that out the updated agenda or the list of potential topics. It hasn't changed yet, but as we fill it out, we'll send out updates to that. So no meeting in June, next meeting in July. You will have the added treat of we're moving back into council chambers in July. And the new council chambers are quite an upgrade.

3:43 So it's really much more kind of bright, pleasant experience up there. There is a substantial upgrade in technology that will probably have to kind of help you navigate it on the fly next month. It's not really worth you coming in ahead of time to get any kind of training on it. But you'll have your own screens in front of you that you'll be able to see things and electronic name plates and all these other things. So anyway, we'll kind of do that and maybe we'll ask you if you're coming in person to show up a few minutes early and Callie can walk you through what the new setup is. I'm still learning it myself. So with that, we did have a subcommittee meeting.

4:34 It actually was board members, Karpane and Kopenhaver's, and it was good for board member Karpane to be able to be there since he knew he was going to be absent today. So we did a preview of the three items that you're going to hear about today. So there's nothing to report that board member Kopenhaver can't share when we get to each of these items. On the development pipeline report you have, once again, you don't need to go through everything in particular to have some projects of note as the collective -- is that a Killian project? Is that on yours? >> Sure. >> Yeah. So we have a new commercial development in the pre-app stage over off of SR14.

5:30 So look forward to that. And then you can see we have a few mixed use projects in pre-app as well. The most notable one is the Claudia, which is a VHA, it's actually housing initiative project. It was the one affordable project that was funded by the state in the past cycle. And we made it our priority. They had been trying for three separate cycles to get funded. So the entire region made this the number one priority. We had hoped to have more projects funded, but thankfully we got this one funded. So this is a deeply affordable senior project that's been in the works for a while. So happy to see that moving forward. You'll see that our parcel C in the heights is now into the land use phase. So parcel C is the project that is being led by Palindrome, and it's on the southwest corner

6:29 of Mill Plain and Divine. So Divine separates the Tower Mall property from what used to be the Vanco driving range. So it's on the former Tower Mall property. So that was one of the projects that we had hoped to get state funding. They did not get state funding, and so they'll be going back again, and we're trying to solve for the financing on that. Like I said, I'm not sure there's anything really to highlight in the projects that are in building plan review, some smaller housing projects, and then have fewer smaller projects once again that are under construction and in completion. So once again, the report's smaller than we'd like it to be.

7:24 And just as a reminder, I think I say this most meetings, this report is simply the projects that move from one stage to the other in the time period. So it's not the full pipeline, the full pipeline. There's a lot of projects that are actually happening, like the Vic, they've got a lot of Vancouver Innovation Center, the old HP site in East Vancouver, they're moving forward with phase one, that's a substantial residential project. So things like that are in the pipeline, I think they were reported at some point, but when they move to the next stage of the permitting process, they'll show up in this report. And then aside from that, we do hope to bring a waterfront gateway project update to you. Right now we have it tentatively scheduled for September. If we have something to report sooner, we'll have that. But we are, I think we've shared with you that this project moving forward into final

8:23 design was predicated on the city adopting new code for six-story wood frame buildings. That proposal is going to our building and fire code commission July 11th, we think that's the tentative schedule for the meeting. So it's basically administrative change. So once the commission weighs in on it, it's the building official for the city of Vancouver just issues that update to code. At that point, Lincoln will have enough clarity on the new code options that they've told us they can now begin final design and pursue the six-story wood frame construction on that. So that'd be great to have them, I mean, that still puts the start of construction into well in 27 if we're lucky. So we won't see them break ground, but it'll at least kind of establish a more predictable

9:22 timeline for the project. And then, you know, at some point, either this year, maybe early next year, we will come back and talk about what we do next with the property behind city hall that was taken out of the development agreement. So it's still early right now and we're still trying to gauge what's happening next on the convention center expansion and some other things, but hopefully we'll be able to bring that back for an update as well. So with that, that's my update. Unless you have any questions, I'll turn it back to President Fazio. Any questions for Patrick or comments? All right, good. Thank you, Patrick. And the next item then would be the Main Street Promise, right? Oh, all right. Sorry.

10:20 Kelly, do we have anyone online or signed up? There's nobody online or signed up. Oh, good. Okay. Thank you. All right. Then we can move to the Main Street Promise. Is that with Julie, I guess? Yes. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Good afternoon. It has been a year. My name is Julie Ahrens. I'm the Small Business Project Manager in the Economic Prosperity and Housing Department, and I was brought on board specifically to help with the Main Street Promise project. It's been a year since our last update, and today I'll walk you through where we've been, what we've accomplished in year one, last year in 2025, and what is ahead for the rest of 2026, and how the project is already shaping the future of Main Street. So let's start with a refresher for those who might have not been here last year when I presented.

11:17 Main Street Promise is a culmination of nearly three decades of community-driven planning. We are reconstructing Main Street from 5th Street, where the SR-14 and I-5 interchanges, all the way up to the Clark County Museum, which is 15th Street, if you're familiar with Main Street. We're modernizing everything from utilities to sidewalks and lighting. And the goals remain the same this year as they were last year to improve safety, accessibility, and connectivity, strengthen community identity, and support long-term economic vitality. And the funding for this project continues to operate from the America Rescue Plan Act, our City Transportation Fund, and our Utilities Fund. So last year, 2025, let's talk about some construction milestones and our first year recap. We fully -- year one was a major push in construction. We fully completed the 500 block, 600 block in the lower part of the corridor, and the

12:16 13 and 1400 blocks in the upper part of the corridor. And we mostly completed the 1200 block. However, we're waiting for the polished development -- that's a private project -- to be complete. So crews worked around the perimeter of that project as much as they could last year, and made sure to not interfere with the progress of that personal private development. So right now, we are actively working on the 800 block, the Kiggins 100 block, and we just started in the Evergreen intersection, a very busy intersection, a couple days ago. And across the corridor, we completed major utility upgrades. We installed new sidewalks, ADA ramps, and pedestrian zones. And we also refined some of our traffic control and detour systems in the second year based on some lessons learned last year. So year one recap, business support programs.

13:16 Supporting businesses was a core priority, and it remains a core priority for us. Over the past 15 months, we have hosted something called Coffee Corners. We've hosted 19 of them. These are casual drop-in events where residents and business owners and property owners can drop in and talk to the construction team, learn about the project, share their frustrations and their thoughts. And with these events, we had more than 400 attendees in the last 19 Coffee Corner events cumulatively. And we make sure to host these Coffee Corner events in an impacted business in a construction zone. So we have been able to provide support to 14 of those businesses in construction zones. We make sure that everybody purchases a cup of coffee or some food to support the business while they're there.

14:10 We also have partnered with the VDA to create what we're calling business feature videos. We created last year 51 business feature videos that reached more than 950 unique viewers and generated more than 2.3 million views online. These videos actually provide a huge visibility boost for corridor businesses. It essentially gives them free advertising that they might not have had otherwise. I also worked with our IT department, and we created an online business map. It's called Explore Main Street. It's a map where every business in the corridor has a pin dropped where they're located, and then it shows where that business is, all the parking spaces surrounding them, the closed and open construction zones surrounding them. And then off to the side there's a construction schedule, so at any given moment you can tell which blocks are going to be under construction and which are already completed. So our online map, that online map continues to grow.

15:08 It now features 25 eateries, 19 retail shops, six experiential businesses like our theaters and our rock climbing wall gym, and believe it or not, 76 beauty tattoo salon parlors in this corridor. That's a lot of beauty. We also have partnered with the VDA to offer a few programs. One of them is a mentoring program. We have 12 businesses who are active in receiving free mentoring through the VDA mentoring program, and last year they offered something called the Blick Clicks and Bricks grants program. If I'm a business owner and maybe I want to improve my facade because Main Street is going to be so spruced up, I would have applied for a Bricks grant. Or if I want to, a business owner, I want to improve my online presence or maybe add

16:03 retail sales opportunity online, I would have applied for a Clicks grant. So we had 41 businesses that were awarded funds last year or since, yeah, since 24. And then also the city has partnered with the SBA, Small Business Administration, and the Small Business Development Center, the SBDC, and also offering free personalized business consulting. We have had 25 business owners take advantage of those free one-on-one consultings from a business expert. So we did have some successes in 2025. Despite the challenges of construction, we have seen strong business resilience and growth. 21 businesses have moved to Main Street or expanded their space on Main Street or extended their hours. We did see two business closures.

17:01 One was due to family and one had actually been experiencing struggles for two years before the project began. And then with the project, they ended up closing their doors. Engagement has been strong, not just at our coffee corner events, but also at our milestone events that we have been holding, like a groundbreaking ceremony. Once a block was completed, we wanted to make sure and have a block celebration saying that the block was completed. So we had an upper block celebration and then we completed a lower block, so we needed -- we didn't want them to feel left out. So had a celebration for a lower block, the first lower block that was completed. And then, of course, we had a really exciting time capsule burial celebration where we had about 100 attendees and 65 folks submitted things that hopefully citizens 100 years from

17:57 now will open that capsule and understand what Vancouver was all about, what was important to us. I actually donated a newspaper that was almost 100 years old from the Columbians. So that was exciting. Very brittle. We also had to plan carefully -- a challenge was planning carefully around business events and their own celebrations, and also worked hard to manage expectations. Everyone wants their block to open up more quickly than the other blocks. So managing expectations on how long construction takes in each zone. And then balancing construction with downtown event scheduling. We actually -- like, for example, I'm using this tool here. This shows every month it's like an aerial view and the blacked out boxes show which zones are under construction. And then we're mapping -- all these businesses have parties and celebrations and events. Like Ronald Records just had a huge record sale where people actually camp out on the sidewalk the night before.

18:55 So making sure we understand where those celebrations are taking place on Main Street, where construction is in relation to that, and making sure that party goers can still have access to these celebrations, even though construction might be happening in that zone or nearby. Okay, thank you. So looking ahead for the rest of 2026, we are focused on completing the remaining blocks, which are 800, 900, and the Kiggins block, and the Evergreen intersection, along with completing the final perimeter area around that Polish private development. We will finalize storm water, concrete, and brick work, and then move into paving and striping on these final blocks. Landscaping will be installed this fall. We actually have tentatively scheduled September 15th to bring the landscapers in. And then lighting, we're actually going to be hanging street lighting over the streets.

19:52 That will be one of the very last things we do to make sure that equipment, large equipment, doesn't clip the lighting or anything like that. So we are currently on track to reopen this full corridor this fall, which will be four or five months ahead of schedule. Originally, we thought we would complete this project in spring of next year. So right now, we're really shooting for Halloween. As construction winds down, we will shift into finishing touches and activation planning for this corridor. So how will we continue to support businesses for the rest of this year? We'll continue offering coffee corners and businesses that are inside of construction zones. We'll continue providing real-time construction updates to the businesses. We'll continue our marketing campaigns and spotlight-- business spotlight campaigns featuring these businesses on social media. VDA just launched last week a new program, a new grant program called Places and Spaces.

20:50 We have a lot of businesses now that there's beautiful paving right against their building. They want to set out tables and chairs for outdoor eating so they can apply for this Places and Spaces grant to help them pay for those tables and chairs. We've also partnered with the VDA to offer a business boot camp. This is a workshop where business owners can come and learn how to use social media to really advertise, hey, Main Street is done. My business is more beautiful than ever. Please come on down. And then we'll also continue partnering with Visit Vancouver, different chambers, and other business groups to continue supporting corridor businesses. Economic momentum. We are seeing strong leasing interest in this corridor. New restaurants, retail shops, and service businesses are still choosing Main Street. And some sectors, especially beauty, experiential, and jewelry retail stores are reporting stable

21:48 or even increased sales. On the other hand, restaurants are still feeling the impacts of construction in addition to the general economy, and they are feeling it more acutely, which is consistent with what we're seeing nationally when it comes to restaurants. But overall, we are hearing from new businesses that are coming to the corridor that this project was a major component and a deciding factor when they choose to invest in our downtown. So as construction wraps up, Main Street will be better positioned to host events and street activations. We'll have opportunities for block level festivals, recurring events like hot summer nights, perhaps, or holiday markets during Christmas season. The improved pedestrian zones will support more outdoor dining and pop-up activities.

22:43 And we are already coordinating with the VDA, the farmer's market, arts organizations, and other local businesses to plan for more events on Main Street and a more vibrant event calendar next year and beyond. So once this project is complete, Main Street will be safer, more accessible, more welcoming, and most importantly, more connected. You know, we have our great Officer's Row area, now we have the waterfront, and then Uptown is just alive with activity, and there's been this interesting area in the middle of all that. So I think out of this entire project, that's what excites me the most, is building that connectivity. So now the whole of downtown will have this strong interface where people will move hopefully seamlessly and continue buying from little zone to little zone. The vision is that businesses will benefit from increased foot traffic and a stronger sense of place, and the community will gain a corridor that reflects its identity and

23:43 supports economic vitality for decades to come. So as we move into the final stretch, we will continue prioritizing open communication with businesses and residents. We will maintain strong construction momentum throughout the rest of this year. And we will prepare for a corridor-wide reopening ceremony. We're talking about a ribbon cutting. And we will continue to support businesses in their recovery and growth as the project wraps up. So thank you for your time and your ongoing support during this two-year project. I'm happy to answer any questions. Excuse me, anyone with any questions? This is David, I'll throw my hat in the ring first. First of all, I just wanted to say that I and others in the community have been incredibly

24:37 impressed with your coordination, your management, your organization, your outreach. You've done a fantastic job with this product, one of the best I've ever seen on a public improvement project. So I just wanted to share that. Tissue, tissue, thank you. Thanks for the presentation. And I appreciate the metrics of tracking the business, which ones are closed, and it looks like far more are expanding and doing well, which is great. I was just curious, is there an ability to track sales tax revenue within this area? It just is another metric to see what the impact is on the economy? Yeah, we've tried to talk to the Department of Revenue on that. We're still in conversations if that's an opportunity. Otherwise it would just be volunteer information, and I come from a background of business banking,

25:36 and oftentimes businesses -- not oftentimes, sometimes they don't necessarily like to volunteer that information. So hopefully we can continue talking to the Department of Revenue if there's any data we can pull from our partnership with them. I'll just second. It's an ongoing issue. We have -- it feels a little different than my experience in Oregon, because we've tried to get data, more granular data on business activity to help with our economic development planning, and I think we need legislative action. So we're actually talking with Seattle and other communities that have been frustrated by the lack of the granular data that we assume revenue has, because they're collecting all this -- I mean, they have all the business license and whatnot. So it came up just the other day. I meant to mention this, but we're now in this weekend closure of Waterfront Way on the waterfront, so from Friday to Monday morning it's closed, so it's pedestrian only, and

26:34 we want to be able to track what does it mean for businesses. We think it's probably better, but maybe we're wrong. We don't have access to that level of sales tax data, but we're going to keep working on it. I can speak -- we have a couple buildings on Main Street, and our tenants are required for our leases to share that information with us for terms of percentage ramp, and I can say I can't share the specifics, but I can share that for our two buildings the sales actually have gone up. You just made my week. I'd just like to thank you too, like David said, just the amount of outreach and planning and attention to detail is just phenomenal, and I really enjoyed walking. I think it's going to look beautiful. It's going to be a great place to stroll up and down.

27:33 I will miss the construction workers because it was fun to watch them doing their stuff, but no, I'm looking forward to the completion and great job. I did have one question with respect to -- I know the VDA is planning on having a sign, you know, it's like across the street, welcome to Vancouver or something like that. Is that part of this program as well, or is that independent? That's independent, and you are in the know. Not many people know about that. That's independent, VDA driven. Okay, thanks. Thank you. Julie? I think we had to change the agenda so that Julie could go have a meeting with Nutter, the contractor, so she has to go back to work. Great, thank you.

28:29 All right, with that, the multifamily tax exemption update. Yeah, let me kick this off and hand it over to Brian, just because I want to just kind of remind everybody of the context here. So part of CCRE's charter is to periodically review the MFTE program and recommend changes and whatnot. And so, you know, when the MFTE program was updated a few years back, that went through you first, and then you made a recommendation to council, and we've been, you know, part of our annual reporting of development activities to isolate the MFTE activity and talk about that. So, which there hasn't been a lot, but this issue I mentioned at a previous meeting and said we'd come back and talk about it. This is a new dimension to the MFTE program in that existing projects can apply for extensions

29:29 of their tax exemption. So it kind of changes the conversation on MFTE from this was originally just an eight-year exemption or a 12-year exemption, and these exemptions are starting to come about. So we wanted to bring to you the analysis that Brian's been doing on this and so give you a picture of that. So with that, I won't steal Brian's thunder, but this is Brian Monroe who manages the MFTE program for us. The non-secretary, but I also should have mentioned up front that we are in the process of improving the accessibility of our public meetings, and part of the accessibility is you can see that we're, you know, you're getting the real-time kind of transcription of it, but the, we're also asking, so if you watch a city council meeting now, every time somebody in the room speaks, they have to, they identify themselves so that someone listening who can't

30:25 see, who may not be able to see you or see your nameplate knows who you are. So when the, and I didn't do a good job because I didn't introduce myself again, but you're being asked to reintroduce yourself every time you speak. So it's, you know, it takes a while to get used to it, but we all need to start practicing that. So thanks. Next slide. So yes, I'm Brian Monroe with the Economic Housing and Prosperity in the housing division. I'll start with a quick high-level refresher on the program, and then move into the new extension requirements and benefits and impacts. Next slide. So the program actually started in 1997, and it's been through many iterations. And MFTE is only allowed in certain designated target areas throughout the city. And currently there are two incentive options.

31:22 There's an eight-year market rate and a 12-year income-based option. The eight-year market rate option allows market rate rents, but also requires a fee in lieu of affordability in order to be approved. The 12-year income-based option requires 20% of the total project units to be restricted for households earning at or below 80% of the area median income. And as a reference, right now the 80% income for a two-person household is $79,000, and for a four-person household it's about $99,000. So for the MFTE application processing, it's three phases to it, really. First is a conditional certificate phase, requiring an application and fee. I check to make sure the applications can meet the base criteria before taking to city council for approval.

32:20 If council approves the application, a conditional certificate is issued, and the project moves into the construction phase, where the applicant has three years to construct and receive occupancy for the project. The project is eligible to receive a final certificate, and that triggers the beginning of the tax exemption beginning on the next January 1 of the next year. And then lastly, we monitor the projects for the duration of their exemption, and that's just to ensure the use of the property, you know, they haven't changed it to short-term rental in the interim, and to verify in compliance for the households at 80%. Moving into the extensions, when an MFTE project is within 18 months of expiring, they can

33:16 apply to extend their exemption for an additional 12 years. Both market rate and income-based projects can apply regardless of their previous AMI rental or exemption turn. In order to receive the exemption, or the extension, projects must recommit to providing that 20% of the total project units at 80% of the air immediate income. Staff then once again would monitor the project to ensure the household income restrictions are met for the new 12-year term, and then at the end of the extension, the project owner has an added requirement, they're required to provide one month's rent to any household occupying an MFTE unit at the expiration, and this is basically intended to help with displacement issues once the income and restrictions are lifted.

34:12 So as soon as that lifts, and owners can do whatever they want, well, within state law to increase rents, that's meant to not displace current MFTE unit holders. And additionally, after the extension expires, there will still be a five-year kind of cool down period for rent raises, and that'll be restricted at 5% plus the CPI factor for the next five years. If the households in the MFTE units leave on their own, then the owners are allowed to go ahead and raise those rents accordingly. And so you'll see up there, under the market rate, there used to be public benefits.

35:11 We have eight, 10, 12-year options, and different AMI percentages over the years has changed. So whatever they had before, when they come into their extension, they have to now meet that 20% of total units. So whatever they had before, this is their new benchmark to get the extension. Next slide. Okay, this chart shows the 37 certificates and associated units that will be expiring over the next 11 years. We don't know if these MFTE projects will opt to extend their certificates. We also don't know if the sitting council, at those times, will grant any extensions depending on variable economic and market conditions at the time of expiration.

36:05 But we do know that out of the 37 unexpired exemption certificates, 30 have either no affordability restriction or have a higher income restriction at a rate of 100 or 115% of their immediate income. So the new extension option potentially provides an opportunity to capture additional affordability for those projects not currently offering income restrictions or ones at a higher rate. Next slide. Yeah, so I'm going to just jump in on this one. So over the past few years, Brian and I, at the request of council and leadership, we have, I guess I'm going to introduce myself, Patrick Quinton, executive director CCRA. And so we've been looking at what the future of the MFTE exempted tax base looks like.

37:01 And so we were able to then use that previous analysis to kind of think about what this means, what this potentially means with the exemptions. Because when we did the analysis a few years back, we were trying to project ahead, like if we had a lot of development activity, what would the, how much growth in that exempted tax base would we see? We didn't have the exemption scenario in our analysis because the way we were trying to look at this was we would expect projects to roll off in exemptions. New projects came on and that would kind of balance out the impact. With this, we're now looking at projects staying on and potentially new projects. But just to give you some sense, as it says up there, about 3% of the overall tax base is currently within some kind of exemption. So that you can see the numbers, it's 38 billion in current assessed value citywide and what

38:00 Brian just showed you on that previous table is about a billion in assessed value. So we have that, that's exempt from taxes right now. That's the full, if you want to think of it this way, it's almost impossible that that would be the scenario, but that's the full value of what could seek exemptions and remain exempt for another 12 years. We don't think it's going to happen that way, but just to give you a sense for the scale of what we're talking about. One of the mitigating factors is that we have very little new volume and so if you think about construction activity and whatnot, we're not likely to see new exempted projects off the books, if you will, for another couple years at the earliest. So we do have this lag in which that exempted base will continue to decline as a percentage of the base.

38:57 So essentially, if we think of the 3% as the status quo, there is room to absorb these exemptions. But if all of a sudden new development activity picks up and we start granting a lot of exemptions, and you could see this 3% number grow 5, 6, 7%, it's a kind of double-edged sword, right? It's a good thing, it means we're seeing a lot of development activity, but we're also seeing a lot more of the tax base that's outside of kind of property tax assessment. Last thing I'll share and then bring it up to Brian is just this is one of the more confusing aspects of MFTE is that it's not a direct hit to city revenues. There's a formula for local jurisdictions to get property tax revenues. That formula doesn't change. It's based on your previous collections, right?

39:54 So the impact of any exempted project is spread throughout the tax base. So it affects tax rates for households and businesses. It does not necessarily impact city revenues directly. Long term, there might be lower growth, and it does impact things like if you try to do tax increment or other things that are dependent on tax base growth, but it doesn't -- when we make this decision or council makes a decision on exempting projects, they're making it on behalf of the tax base, they're not making it on -- like with the city revenue decision in mind. So next slide. Okay. So Vancouver households earning at 80% AMI, they include renters in mid-priced apartments or older housing stock.

40:52 This income band frequently includes teachers, nurses, public employees, small business managers, workers who are essential to the community but increasingly strained by rising costs. Census data indicates that about 40% of Vancouver renters are housing cost burden, and the households may have stable employment but face constraints limiting their ability to save for home ownership or absorb any significant cost increases, you know, especially with other variables, student debt, child care, medical expenses and so forth. One of the key benefits of providing these extensions is extended access control to these units. The reservation of the units at 80% eliminates the competition of these units from higher wage earners.

41:48 And so it's just a little niche that they have that they can apply for. And with -- I think we had 400 new starts last year is all we had. So without any new units, the competition is just going to be higher. So this is one of the biggest benefits that we have. Our comp plan calls for 8,000 new 80% AMI units and MFTE is one of the better tools that we have to try and reach that goal. Next slide, please. So CCRA has a -- this is Patrick Quinton again, executive director of CCRA. CCRA has a role in reviewing MFTE and making recommendations.

42:44 So if you feel kind of motivated, you could weigh in on this issue now or at some point in the future. We're not asking for any action today. But there is -- there are considerations. We brought -- how many transactions have we brought to city council so far? One or two? >> This year? >> Yeah. >> Two this year. We have one extension. >> So this has been a -- the first one we brought generated a lot of city council conversation and really some folks were a little bit troubled by this possibility given what Brian mentioned is that and folks in this room probably know this, the 80% AMI rents are close to market in many parts of Vancouver.

43:43 So when you're looking in the near term, if somebody says what am I buying for this exemption, it's already built, so we're not getting a new project out of the ground, what am I buying? Right now it's hard to do the math. Like you're actually -- the property tax exemption, even the present value of it vastly outweighs any rent savings that we can show right now. So this is -- there is, I think, a much more difficult policy question in front of you and in front of city council with the extensions than there is with new projects, and that's the main one is like what's the tradeoff between what we're paying for and what we're getting in value. And there still is, what Brian said, there's 80% units we need to preserve, there's 8,000 new 80% units we're supposed to deliver under the comp plan over the next 20 years, so there

44:42 has to be some pathway to get there on that even with the kind of tightening economics on the rent. And then obviously the other big policy consideration is just the impact on the tax base, which is once again, it's not a direct hit to revenues now, but it slows -- essentially slows the growth of the tax base for the next 12 years. If you're starting now, at some point, and I have a long history in tax increment financing, it's the same kind of thing, like you're sacrificing near-term tax revenues for significant jump in tax revenues in 10, 20 years in the future, it's the same kind of decision you're making. So this is the -- every time we bring a deal, we will be bringing deals forward on this, we will be getting -- having these conversations, certainly with city council.

45:40 So I think if you're inclined to weigh in on any of these topics, we can certainly share that with council and make that part of the -- of how we present deals to them going forward. I think this is one of the more challenging policy questions on the housing side that city council has. I feel far more strongly when we're making an investment directly in a project or doing a project at the beginning that we can demonstrate the value. This is a harder question to answer. And the -- right now, given the fact that 80% AMI units are close to market, there's a strong incentive for projects to take advantage of this. So during this current situation in the market, that table that Brian showed you is -- a lot of those projects that have expiring certificates at the top of the table, they're probably

46:36 going to go for this because it wouldn't make sense not to, unless they just don't want to deal with the compliance part of it. So we're likely to see this activity pick up as we get to those expiring certificates. So with that -- >> Can I ask a question? >> Yeah. We're done. >> Oh, you're done? I just have to make sure I understand. >> Just so we can practice. You have to introduce yourself again. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Mark Fazio. >> Yeah. So you showed about a billion dollars of properties that are currently in the exemption, somewhere along there. So if all of those came back online, that would be about, what, $10 million of property taxes that would be available to the city? I just used a 10% millage rate -- >> Well, once again, it's not going to come to us. >> Oh, some of it goes to the state and some -- >> So we're locked in. So our ability to increase property tax, right?

47:34 So we're just on this, like, what is it, 1% a year, whatever, 1%? >> 1% plus construction. >> Yeah. So, right, so we're locked into this. And so it doesn't -- neither affects our -- like, when we exempt it, it doesn't hurt us. But when it comes back online, we don't all of a sudden get this big. But it lowers, right, it increases tax base. So property tax rates might not go up as much or -- >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> Like, for example, the Affordable Housing Fund, this will seem random, but it's a fixed $10 million a year that we get. The rate on that declines every year based on growth in the tax base. So it becomes less and less of a burden. So if you were to bring all of those back online, the rate that people are paying for the Affordable Housing Fund and there's other levies will drop significantly. So then it becomes -- right?

48:32 So that's the real benefit of getting these back into the tax base is that it lowers the tax across -- the burden across everybody. >> I see. Okay. And then the other one, just to make sure I understand what you were saying, is if you're a landlord and the market is, say, $1,700 -- there's nothing scientific about $1,700. I'm just using that example. But 80% of AMI is $1,700. So as a landlord, you're saying, hey, I'll do the 12 years and get exemption for 12 years and still make the same amount of money, right? Is that where you're -- >> Yeah. I mean, but they're also gambling -- they're not gambling, but the choice they have to make is what if the market all of a sudden picks up again and then the rents diverge. >> Or you hope AMI goes up, too. And so you can -- >> Yeah. But it won't go -- I mean, so at some point, if the market changes, the market rates will kind of separate from 80% AMI rents and then --

49:30 >> But you're only using 20% of your base. >> But now they've got a cushion -- >> You've still got 80% -- >> And they're getting the extension. So yeah, I mean -- >> So it's like a portfolio, 80% -- you know, 60% stocks, 40% bonds. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I think that last point's really important because it's basically an option -- the developers are able to opt into the extension, and you have a bunch of developers who want to do that because it makes sense today, but it's a 12-year extension, so you're basically locking in those units to 80% for 12 years no matter what the market does, which I think is really important because in Portland, we have a 99-year obligation to provide affordable housing, but we get a significantly lower number of years. I think it's 10 years of exemption. And so an issue has always been that disconnect between the timing and the exemptions, and here the city has opted, which I'm so supportive of because it's really important from a real

50:30 estate standpoint, to align that timing, but it's basically an option that you guys can opt into. And in five years, you may have zero developers wanting to do MFTE or getting an exemption or extension on it. You just don't know where the market's going to be. So I don't know. I personally think it's -- to your point, it's a little bit of a gamble on both sides of the table. It's for the city and the developers or the property owners, but I think if the city is prioritizing knowing that they can provide those units at 80%, that's the gamble the city should be making. And it also doesn't seem to impact your tax revenue that much, so it's like, you know.

51:16 Any other comments or -- so I have a question on -- oh, go ahead, David. Is that David? Oh, no, that's -- I'll just follow up with you. So go ahead. No, go ahead. Mine's a little separate outside of the affordable housing. Okay. Board member Copenaver. I just had a question, Brian, with more -- can you kind of dive into the relocation clause again? I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't following who that all applied to and for how long. Can you kind of dive into that a little bit more, please?

52:10 Yeah, that relocation or that one month's rent only applies to any occupied MFTE units at the time of the expiration. So if you have 20 units and only 15 of them are occupied at that time, you would only have to provide that one month's rent for those 15 units. Okay. If they decide to relocate, yes, okay. It's not just for relocation. If they are staying in the unit, they would still receive that. It's just whether or not they are in the unit at the time it expires. Walk me through that, please. I'm not following why -- if they're not leaving, what would be the implication of giving them that fee?

53:07 This is from the state, so this is authorizing legislation for the extension requires this, so this is not -- we don't have discretion on this, but walk them through it. Yes, and basically they were, I think, trying to protect those MFTE unit households as soon as that exemption expires, the rents can be raised and utilities -- right now the 30 percent is rent plus any utilities that we're trying to protect, but as soon as that expires, I think they were looking forward to what they could do to help protect some of the households from that financial impact. Okay. Thank you. Allysa Bishka, board member.

54:01 I guess the only comment I would have -- no one has a crystal ball, but have you all explored projections on anticipated rents? Michi's like, give me that answer if you have it. We did it as part of the development -- the only data point I can bring to you right now is what we showed you in our development activity report, which had -- I think we went out a couple of years from like costar or something, and I think it was pretty flat. I don't think we're anticipating in the next couple of years seeing significant rent growth. So, yeah, I don't think they're going to see -- people are going to get a window into the future property owners in the next year, so I think if they're making decisions now, they're still dealing with a pretty murky future. But not to get into details, this is Michi.

55:01 We don't like to use costar for rent projections because they usually include new construction deliveries which can really impact projections of rent growth, so we usually use Yardi. So we would like to believe that rent growth is a little bit more robust than what costar is currently projecting for the Portland metro. I see that, not to put him on the spot, but Chim Choon Ko, who does a lot of this analysis for us, is online, and I think I represented it correctly, but I don't know if Chim Choon wants to turn on his mic or turn off his mute and weigh in on this as well. But if not, he doesn't -- he can pass. Yeah, I can -- so for -- we don't have access to Yardi, unfortunately. Chim Choon Ko, with the City of Vancouver speaking, yeah, I would love to have access

55:55 to Yardi, but we do not have access to that data, so most of our forecasting is off of costar with however good that is. But did I represent it correctly? Yeah. Yeah, okay. And, you know, on the rent growth side, I will just remind everybody, which we did in the development activity report, and I think there's more and more discussion of this in kind of the news and whatever when we talk about rent growth or housing -- like, we need income growth. So some of it is -- like, if you really peel it back, it's really getting to this question of what kind of income growth do we expect to see in this -- in Vancouver. So -- and that's not -- it's not a rosy picture either, so. Go ahead.

56:52 So I guess, Alyssa Pischke, again, that -- I think that just adds to the equation. If we don't -- we're not -- and you know that, I mean, that's part of this conversation. If it's not an anticipated income or rent growth, then why? I guess would be -- you know, that's the direct -- what's the benefit versus the tax exemption? So I think there's two parts -- this is Patrick Whitney, and there's two parts to that answer. So there's the basic math, and I still think at this point it is -- you know, the property -- I mean, we can offer this because -- is it statutorily required that we offer it, or is it -- we can opt into it, right? Yeah.

57:46 So -- so the math, it may not work out that we're getting dollar value back for what we're giving up, but the benefit is that, one, we have to figure out a way to get to this supply of 80 percent units. So that's one, and two, we really believe that the understated part of this is what Brian walked everybody through, which is the 80 percent -- so even if these 80 percent AMI units are close to market, people who can't apply -- can't rent those units unless you qualify. So you basically are reserving a pool of units that are only available to people at or below 80 percent AMI. If you just -- and if they were out in the market, with folks who -- different income

58:42 levels and whatnot, and so -- and this is -- goes back a few years to some of the analysis that Eco-Northwest did for us, Mike Wilkerson, around this filtering and kind of, like, as housing supply is constrained at these different income levels, you push people at higher incomes into lower rent, lower cost housing, and so they're creating more competition for folks for whom that would be an affordable unit. So that's -- that's probably, in the near term, the biggest benefit is that every 80 percent AMI unit, restricted unit, that we put in the market is a unit that folks at those income levels do not have to compete for with folks with higher incomes. And I don't know how to quantify the benefit of that, so that -- you know, so you can -- you know, you can do the back of the envelope calculation on, you know, what does it cost to build a unit.

59:40 It's not -- you know, so, like, if you go back to the table, we have 300 -- the delta between income-restricted units and whatever, it's like 300 -- we could pick up 300 more units, right? So we could do the math on that. It's probably -- it's not going to -- it's not an accurate representation because they're existing units, but we don't have the ability to control the rents on those, so they're kind of paying for the unit, but then there's also the value of, you know, restricting that unit to just those households, so -- you know, it's not -- it's not a perfect solution. It's not as -- I don't think it's not as direct a one-to-one benefit as when we provide incentives or subsidies to new projects. >> Ken Anderton, board member. Does it really matter if it's new construction or old construction?

1:00:35 Because if you're trying to hit a goal, right, to have a certain number in the city at 80%, that just locks you in and guarantees it, right? So at some point, even though they may not math right now for -- it may be a better deal for developers, if you -- the city has a goal and it executes on the goal, it's a measure when I do it. >> Any other questions? I have one about MFT that's outside of the affordable piece, but the MFT is, what, available in Waterfront, the downtown, and Heights, is that right? >> Yeah, there's uptown going up to the Highway 99 corridor, there's East Vancouver, which

1:01:29 includes the quarry, Vic, got 4th plane, Mill Plain, the Evergreen and Grand area. Yeah, I think we have eight and I think that covers them. >> Okay. Well, the question I had about MFT, or just -- I don't know if it's a comment or question or your response, but when it was first set up, the idea was to try to get housing in downtown and the Waterfront, because there was none. So there wasn't necessarily none affordable, but there was none to begin with for anything. And so there was this MFT program to incentivize people, and it had nothing to do with, you know, affordable ability, it was just a simple eight-year type thing. So if we're wanting to build more housing, does it make sense for us to just make it

1:02:23 really simple to try to get housing, remove all of those other kind of impediments or, you know, and fee in lieu of and all that, just to incentivize housing in general? Or, you know, I'm not in favor of giving an incentive for something that someone would build anyway, but if it would be something that it would spur someone on, I guess that's a question I would have to ask everyone. If that would be something that we should consider to the city or as a board of amending the MFT for that portion, because I think if you build more housing, I think it kind of trickles down to everyone else. So if you want to kind of put this on the agenda and we can brainstorm on this topic, I think that's fine, I mean, you know, we did a recent change and the timing was bad,

1:03:19 and so we probably picked the worst time to change it, and so we really haven't seen any activity and, you know, I don't know that it's all entirely attributable to the changes in MFT, but somebody could say, well, you know, the fee in lieu payment, and then we just changed last year to try and mitigate some of this, you know, the fee in lieu now can be deferred for six years and waive the application fee, and we wanted to increase the exemption period on market rate deals to 12 years, the state doesn't allow that, so we tinkered with it in ways that we thought would hopefully mitigate some of this. I know that the six-year fee in lieu still has to get paid, so you've still got to put it in your pro forma somewhere and whatever. But this period of activity is going on long enough that I think it's a legitimate question

1:04:15 to ask, whether we should go back again and take a look at MFT and discuss what -- like you're basically saying, strip it away and see if we can get -- pay it back and see if we can spur a new development or temporary moratorium on things -- I mean, so. Yeah. Brian Monroe, just to piggyback on that. When it did start, it was all flat incentive, just get butts in seats and anything, and then we've gone through a public benefit period where you had to provide a percentage of your expected contribution and some sort of public benefit, and then we kind of figured out that we don't need 10 statues and a three-block radius on the street, so things started compounding,

1:05:08 and then that's when we decided that the affordable portion of it was brought in in about 2014, when that was added. And I think that when we go to Council, they like to have that in their pocket that, yes, the developers are getting this and we're getting affordability. So when I'm presenting in front of them, that's where I see them really latching on to, is this is what the city's getting out of it, because we're putting the exempted taxes on the rest of the tax base. So that's what they're holding on to, is what the benefit to the rest of the city is. Any other questions?

1:06:06 I mean, we could -- so we can talk about maybe bringing back an MFT conversation later in the year and prepare for that, and then we can keep you updated as these move forward, and if at some point you want to weigh in more specifically on the extension question, we can do that as well. I think we should keep talking about it, and I have the board and everyone -- it's always kind of a tricky thing, because you want to incentivize people, but at the same time, you don't want to incentivize -- I mean, when do you stop the incentive and just let development happen on its own, and I don't know if anyone ever knows where that answer is or where you turn it on and turn it off. Sorry. One more point. This is Patrick Quintin again. There's also -- we've done analysis, and I won't put Jim Choon on the spot again, but we've done analysis in terms of general kind of development economics in this current environment,

1:07:05 and it's our general perception that MFT alone is not making projects pencil. So I think that also is one of these issues, is like we could make all these changes, still still not see any development activity, and then we're going to have to reel that back in when things start. So not to say that it's not a legitimate conversation, but that's been part of this for us back and forth in our thinking about what do we do with MFTE in this environment. It may not be the answer by itself, so -- Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of things. I mean, on a city standpoint, from permitting to -- I don't know if you do the sales tax exemption or property tax, what else, but -- all right. If there's no other discussion, should we go ahead and move on? All right. Next item is the wayfinding project.

1:08:05 Is that Ann? Okay. Welcome. Thank you. Here you go. My name is Ann Stedler, and I'm correctly identified on your agenda as the parking demand manager. I'm pleased to speak with you, Mr. President and board members, about the downtown wayfinding project. This project is part of the parking plan that you've heard of before. We're going to consider an agenda that explains its context in the parking plan, the discussion of what is wayfinding by way of definition, then I'll give you an overview of what the current plan contract requires, the timeline and public engagement, and we have an opportunity for questions at the end of the presentation. Relaxed if you have a question mid-term, that's okay, too, so let me know.

1:09:04 I want to spend the first few slides focusing on what is the plan as a whole and where does wayfinding sit within it. So you will remember that the plan had three primary pillars. The first one to adopt pricing practices to improve on-street parking supply use. The second one to expand public parking supply through shared parking arrangements. And lastly, to enhance car-free options for getting to and around downtown. So in that context, let's consider particularly the goals for pillar two. These four actions focus heavily on opening private parking to public use. One, by pursuing agreements with property owners. Secondly, by expanding parking operations for public events.

1:09:59 Third, eliminating parking minimums through part of the comp plan action. And by that, also facilitating shared parking between developers and, again, owners of private parking. Last and highlighted on this slide is to improve the wayfinding and navigation systems. Because obviously for opening private parking to the public, the public doesn't know where that is and they've stayed away from those parking entrances their entire parking life. So we're changing behaviors. Wayfinding definitions will help us guide this conversation. Wayfinding refers to the process of navigating a city or a landscape. The tools involved can be signage, maps, or digital navigation tools. And they assist individuals in this process.

1:10:56 Now in terms of outcome, we expect that wayfinding is that thing that makes navigation experiences easy, intuitive, hospitable, essentially increasing the welcome that people feel on all modes of transportation to and around downtown. We're responding to a need because downtown is growing and it needs a modern wayfinding system. Our premise is that the existing wayfinding and navigation systems downtown are limited and outdated. They don't anticipate, for instance, projected growth or align with expanding mobility options or direct public to private parking assets yet. The lack of this modern system is contributing to a sense of congestion and perhaps in fact

1:11:49 congestion as people circle and a perception of the lack of parking and mobility options. Let's talk about this project and how it will unfold over time. In 2026 and currently underway is phase one, which is the wayfinding investment plan. Built on that plan will be a series of implementation contracts that will probably last from 2027 through 2030. We see that as phase two. The scope of work for phase one is to evaluate the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats in the existing wayfinding that we have in Vancouver to document the needs that we're experiencing as people and users in downtown and what are the requirements of those groups.

1:12:44 And lastly, to identify wayfinding best practices that are applicable to our situation tailored to Vancouver. The deliverable would be a comprehensive multiyear wayfinding investment plan. It should do the following things. Include a set of recommendations for those multiyear investments that would improve wayfinding. Recommend what kind of phasing that implementation sequence should take that reflects the evolution of downtown growth and also directs the public to the private parking and to new mobility options. The program should be comprehensive enough that we have the total understanding of what our wayfinding goals are and what improvement steps are needed before we launch work.

1:13:38 In other words, it's a sequence that's planned up front. Right now, I want to focus on the timeline and the public engagement that's coming up for this first year contract which results in the investment plan. We started the program in February of 2026 and we expect the investment plan to be complete in December of 2026. The first phase was alignment in terms of understanding what the consultants inheriting with existing city policy and programs that have already been developed. We're now, as of May 21, amidst the survey and research focus, and I'll come back to the surveys in the next slide. And by September of 2026, we will have finished that research and start a prototype installation.

1:14:33 The prototype is a way of testing the results of the surveys against how public actually interfaces with the consultant's recommended communication. We know we're going to have to communicate in multiple forms, but what are the principles behind that? That will be exposed in the prototype installation to which the public is invited. Last, we'll synthesize the total information from those processes and come up with a recommendation that I described in the earlier slide. Bear in mind, all of that results in the progressive plan from 2027 through 2030. Now public engagement, we're doing a lot of this. We're engaging with the public at large through online surveys and through intercept surveys at events. This is to capture anyone and everyone, and it's an unlimited number of surveys, right?

1:15:31 The key stakeholder survey would be recorded interviews with business owners, property owners, and interest group leaders. And the last topic would be local subject experts, people who are very strong already in their own right on transit, tourism, development, and cultural amenities in Vancouver. We expect these to be underway from June, say June 8th through July 15th. The CCRA members certainly are invited. We want your observations and experiences. We'll notify you by an email with an invitation to complete the stakeholder surveys by July 15th, and of course, we'll reach you to attend the prototype installation tours in September. After that, the next step for the CCRA would be to review the draft plan, which we expect

1:16:30 would be in November or December. That includes my presentation, and we're ready to talk about any questions or comments you may have. Thank you. Any comments or questions? Melissa Pishka, board member, is this restricted to just parking information or general? It's more general. So certainly one of the key elements is how do people find parking quickly instead of circulating. That's real important. So not to be discarded, but also what happens when you get out of your car? Where the heck are you? How do you get to the place that you want to go? What are the options of places you want to go? Because we want it to facilitate exploration as well as a direct mission-driven visit.

1:17:28 So we're reaching all modes of transportation. Little infants to adults, how do people get around, regardless of their life stage or their ability? Just to emphasize that, the interactions with downtown are so car-oriented right now, just given the history of Vancouver as more of a suburban community, that the wayfinding really is meant to be comprehensive, holistic, but we have to address this first thing, which is people drive into downtown expecting to park right where they're going. And so we need to kind of interrupt that behavior, and so there's a parking element to this,

1:18:27 help you find parking. And some of that's before you even get in the car, we have a lot of website information now that's new, but then like Ann said, and then give you a feeling of comfort that, okay, I can get out of my car, I don't need to worry about how to get around or whatnot. So it's a real, it really is, there's a lot of change in how people interact with downtown the way that they've done historically. Right now it's like we're kind of in the midst of this transition because we've tried to price parking properly and the events, so people are beginning to experience a lot of the problems parking downtown, so it'd be great to have wayfinding now, but some of this is actually positive for the wayfinding thing because people have already experienced

1:19:20 the pain points and then hopefully be receptive to what's to come and directing them to solutions. I was excited about the parking project because parking is like the bane of my existence as a developer, and I've always felt like it's always underutilized, people always overestimate how much parking they need for their teams or whoever, and so I was excited when this whole topic of Vancouver trying to give public access to private parking came up because I was like, "Yes, that's exactly what everyone should be doing." I had not thought about the change of user behavior and kind of the user experience of getting around downtown, and it's interesting to have the Main Street Promise Project update today together with this, and then also obviously the Vancouver Waterfront, which has been delivering over the last 15 years.

1:20:17 It's just kind of like it feels like we're moving towards a much more walkable kind of urban center, which is really exciting, so I'm excited to see the prototype. I think I was a little disappointed not to see some initial thoughts on the prototype, but I'm excited to see it. Alyssa Pishka again, "Building off Michi's comment, I do agree. My personality type I hate inefficiency and underutilization of parking. So how has that been going as part of the conversations with the private?" Well that makes Michi's overture explicitly a question. So let's talk about that for a minute. We are well along in the first year of engaging property owners who have excess parking and who are aware that they can make that excess parking available to the public.

1:21:16 So right now we're advertising both on our website and in email, social media, the availability of five parking structures in the downtown. You know them, Michi's is one of them, and we've really appreciated working with your team. The 703 Broadway property, just north of that near the cinemas. Our own city parking lot, which is the park and go that you access off of 6th Street between Washington and Columbia, and then the two new garages in the waterfront, which really boosted the amount of parking that we can make available to the public, especially since those are in a progressive mode, not yet fully utilized as they are intended to be a few years from now. So if you think about what that means, we've got roughly 2,000 parking spaces in the waterfront

1:22:12 where we have our most competitive parking demand, and then going north of the railroad tracks to the three I mentioned first, we have 1,300 parking spaces, even if you count the public garage off of 6th Street as only 600. There's more than that, but we're calling it 600 for purposes of weekend event days. Now what we're doing at this point is collecting from those property owners and through their generosity the record of what kind of occupancy and transaction data they have. We're not interested in revenue. We're not interested in any of that kind of financial data, but we do want to track to what extent are we occupying garages, day times, weekdays, day times on a weekend when we have an event, and then evenings.

1:23:07 We've got tremendous opportunity to have overnight parking vacancies used by new housing projects. So those are the three areas that we're poised to max as the downtown grows and as people become more comfortable with walking a block to where they park or walking three blocks from where they park to Esther Short or the waterfront. So we're trying to figure out how much traction can we get, how much behavior change can we get using the national platforms, park, whiz, and spot heroes so people can reserve parking in advance, avoid circulating to find it, and take some of that pressure off of on-street parking. That of course relates to pillar one, which is how best do we use the on-street parking. Big topic. Exciting evolution.

1:24:04 >> Yeah, and our approach on this has been to work with, and Ann's working with these folks directly, is to work with the private parking owners that want to work with us and then work our way out. But we've found some fantastic partners right away, and like she mentioned, the Waterford parking garages want, they need more utilization, so they're very willing to work with us. So over time, we hope to build on this, and if you think about downtown geographically, it would be nice to have, could we get a couple lots over here that we're working with so that we're not, like right now it's really focused right downtown, but that's still where the most conflict happens, and we are part of what has happened because of the ambition of our parking plan is that Ann is now collaborating with our parks team, and we track all the events.

1:25:01 And so we are, starting this weekend, we are going to be, like every summer is historically high usage, so we would expect to have more visitors at events this summer than we had last summer, and that's all, most of them are parking somewhere because we don't have a good mode split yet, but we are actively working to both help those event organizers get people the right information on parking and see if we can avoid a lot of these conflicts, but then real time, look at the data, because we now have data on utilization, we have much better data than we've ever had, and so we can then kind of in real time see, okay, that created this issue or that issue. So we're just a lot more sophisticated about it now in terms of just understanding what people's behaviors are, and the more of the private parking we get online, the better

1:25:59 able we're going to be able to resolve all that. It's a fascinating real time, I know it's a bane, but it's also, it ends up being kind of a fascinating thing to be working on because it's just, you have all these different levers to pull and the data's great, like we now have a data-rich. So I was just thinking, I have them in September, we can bring it sooner, but really our parking team can do a fantastic presentation on utilization and show how it, we know peak periods and how people park and where they park, and like we shut down Waterfront Way, we now know where we can see on the map what happened with the utilization so we can track, okay, where are we seeing utilization pop because we closed those two blocks down. The more, if we have private park data, so Ann's been working to get, share your data so we can help you, we can see how much of the, you know, if we know we took spots offline,

1:26:58 is that going into garages or is it going 10 blocks north? It's going somewhere, and so the more data we have, the more we can kind of understand the impact of these different programs. And I just want to go back to the original thing. There are a lot of folks, Ann or Gabe Montes, who runs our parking team, who are itching to start looking at new signs, and I've been the one who keeps telling them I want a plan for the whole system first, it's easy to geek out, there's a lot of cool technology obviously, and so we'll get there, but we really need to understand the full picture of what we're trying to accomplish downtown before we start. And there's so many different, I mean, Ann didn't have this, but we could show a bunch of the signage that exists downtown that's all from different eras and different, it's

1:27:57 like the whole mishmash. So eventually that'll all get, that'll all get fixed. Yeah, thank you. And yes, it's going to be important because hopefully Vancouver is going to grow with more housing, more businesses, more visitors. And so you're going to be, you are in front of all this to help meet all this. Okay, so with that we have, we don't need an executive session, there's nothing there. I think we're good, right? Any other discussion, comments? All right, with that I guess we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you all.