Vancouver City Council

0:00 (upbeat music)

0:30 - There we go. Good evening. Welcome to Vancouver City Council. Today is Monday, June-- - Hit the power button. Here you go. - Okay, let's try again. Okay. Good evening. Welcome to the City of Vancouver City Council. Today is Monday, June 1st, 2026. This afternoon, we had three workshops. The first one was our Inspire Vancouver program. Then we went on to talk about the Clark County Sustainable Funding Team update, which talks about parks in the city and in the county, and then our transportation improvement program that we have been working on for a number of years. Would you please join me in welcoming our speaker, which we've been working on for a number of years? Would you please stand and join me

1:28 in the Pledge of Allegiance? - I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. - Thank you. Ms. Dollar, please call the roll. - Council Member Harless. - Present. - Perez. - Here. - Paulson. - Here. - Stover. - Here. - Hanson. - Present. - Mayor McNerney-Ogle. - Present. Thank you very much. We have four proclamations this evening. I'm sorry? Oh, I was gonna do that afterwards. - Yours doesn't have it. - No, it doesn't. Let me go ahead and do the proclamations and then I will. Thank you. Okay, let's do Pride Month.

2:28 Whereas June 2026 marks 57 years since the Stonewall uprising between June 28th, 1969 and July 3rd, 1969, which sparked the development of the gay rights movement throughout the United States. Whereas the month of June is celebrated throughout our nation as Pride Month, commemorating the Stonewall uprising and the progress achieved by lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and two-spirit communities. The city of Vancouver has a thriving queer community sustaining and sustained by so many inclusive organizations, places of worship, businesses, neighborhoods, schools, events and more. And while there have been remarkable progress toward acceptance, equity, equality

3:28 and members of the queer community across the nation and within the city of Vancouver still face discrimination and violence. And whereas the city of Vancouver is dedicated to preventing discrimination and working to eliminate prejudice wherever it exists, it is imperative that all of our community members feel valued, safe and included. And the city celebrates Pride Month by raising the pride flag to honor the history and to support the rights of all community members to experience equality and freedom from discrimination. Now therefore, I am McEnerny-Ogle, Mayor of Vancouver, Washington, do hereby proclaim the month of June as Pride Month in the city of Vancouver. And I urge all community members to join us in celebrating the members of our two-spirit LGBTQ community and working to make our city vibrant, safe, equitable and inclusive for all.

4:27 And I'm calling upon the people of Vancouver to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists. Tara and Liz.

4:45 (people chattering) - Thank you, mayor and council, for your leadership and your support. My name is Liz Fuentes, and I am honored to accept this Pride Month proclamation on behalf of Queer Community Network and the queer and trans communities of Southwest Washington. Representation matters. It matters because visibility matters. It matters because when elected leaders

5:44 publicly recognize our communities, they're sending a message that queer and trans people belong here, that our lives, our families, our contributions and our humanity matter. For generations, two-spirit LGBTQ+ people have faced exclusion, discrimination and harm. Our elders fought hard for the rights and protections many of us benefit from today, but that work is far from over. Right now, we are witnessing attacks on historically marginalized communities at every level of government. Queer and trans people are being targeted, but we are not alone. Immigrants, people of color, women, people with disabilities, religious minorities and other marginalized communities are also facing efforts to roll back rights, erase histories and undermine their place in public life. This is why representation matters. When one community is singled out,

6:43 all of us have a responsibility to pay attention. When one community's rights are threatened, every community's rights are at risk. Our struggles are connected and so is our liberation. Tonight, many of our friends, neighbors and allies are gathered in battleground where local leadership has chosen a different path. While we gather here to celebrate inclusion, they've refused the Pride Month Proclamation similar to this one and are considering a new proclamation that will further marginalize other communities. To our friends in North County, we see you, we stand with you and we will keep fighting alongside you. Because our community is bigger than one city, any one council chamber, any one vote. We are connected by our shared humanity, our resilience and our commitment to showing up for one another. As an educator, I see every day how important representation and belonging are.

7:41 I'm a proud Puerto Rican non-binary person. I show up as my authentic self because I know there are students who need to see that people like them exist, belong and can thrive. I see young people trying to figure out where their place in this world is and I see firsthand that when people feel seen, valued and connected, lives change. Support saves lives, connection saves lives, community saves lives. So tonight, let us celebrate, let us honor those who came before us and let us recommit ourselves to the work ahead. Stand in solidarity, speak up for one another, create spaces where everyone belongs and remember that our greatest strength has always been each other. Thank you and happy Pride. (audience applauding) (audience cheering)

8:39 - Okay, Kyle, please join us for National Pollinator Week. Whereas pollinators, including more than 4,000 species of native bees in the United States, are essential partners in producing much of our food supply, contributing to approximately one third of the food and beverages consumed. Whereas pollinators also help our environment by keeping ecosystems in cities healthy and diverse, improving our quality of life and boosting the local economy. Pollinator populations are declining due to habitat loss, pesticide use, invasive species and climate change. Recent findings from the Washington State Bee Atlas

9:38 identified nearly 30 new or rare native bee species statewide, including four in Clark County, highlighting both the urgency and opportunity for local conservation action. And the city of Vancouver manages more than 1,600 acres of parks, natural areas and green spaces that provide important habitat for pollinators. The city of Vancouver offers recommendations to builders and community members regarding landscaping and caring for the land. They encourage the use of native plants and the protection of habitats to help pollinators and strengthen the ecosystem. Now therefore, I, Anne McEnerny-Ogle, Mayor of Vancouver, Washington, do hereby proclaim the week of June 22 through 28 as National Pollinator Week in the city of Vancouver. As a Bee City USA affiliate,

10:36 we urge community members to recognize Pollinator Week and invite all to learn from educators and community-based organizations at the third annual Pollinator Festival on June 20th, 2026. Kyle?

10:59 (people chattering)

11:30 - Good evening, Mayor and Council members. My name is Kyle Roseland and I'm the founder of the Vancouver Bee Project. On behalf of our volunteers, partners and community members, I'd like to thank you for recognizing Pollinator Week in Vancouver through this proclamation. Pollinators are essential to healthy ecosystems, local food production, urban forests and the quality of life we enjoy here in Vancouver. Washington is home to more than 600 native bee species and thanks to the work of the Washington Bee Atlas, we now know that there are approximately 110 native bee species documented right here in Clark County and in Vancouver. Vancouver continues to demonstrate leadership through its Bee City USA designation, support for pollinator habitat projects, urban forestry initiatives, the Nature Spaces Program and community partnerships that help residents take action for pollinators. This proclamation helps raise awareness that everyone may make a difference by planting native flowers, reducing pesticide use, protecting nesting habitat and supporting healthy urban ecosystems.

12:29 I'd also like to invite folks to our Pollinator Festival that's happening Saturday, June 20th from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. The festival is a free family-friendly event taking place at Marshall Park, Vida Elementary, Clark Public Utilities and the Arts Hub. This year's festival will feature vendors, educational exhibits, art, garden tours, a bee walk, activities for children and a nationally recognized keynote speaker, Doug Tallamy. The festival celebrates the partnerships that make pollinator conservation possible including that with the city of Vancouver and its many community organizations. And I hope you'll join us by celebrating Pollinator Week and learning how small actions can make a big difference in a community like Vancouver. Thank you. - Thank you, Kyle. Haley? (audience applauding)

13:22 - Good evening. - One more time. - Okay. - Until it turns, there you go. - Got it, okay. Welcome to the new chambers. All right, good evening, mayor, council, staff and community, my name is Haley Heath. I work in the Parks and Rec department and manage our Nature Spaces program. Thank you very much for the continued support of Vancouver's pollinator work. Since becoming a Bee City USA community in 2025, we've strengthened partnerships, especially with the Vancouver Bee Project. And we've expanded habitat across the city. Thank you very much, Kyle and partners for that support and work. Through Nature Spaces, a city program that brings people together to restore and enhance public spaces with native plant habitat, more than 1,000 volunteers have planted over 8,200 pollinator-friendly plants. This is just one example of the broader work across Vancouver to build healthier,

14:21 more resilient and pollinator-friendly landscapes and ecosystems. Those recent discoveries of rare and bee species in Vancouver, they really provide clear evidence that local habitat restoration is creating the right conditions for native pollinators to thrive. You've been invited to the Pollinator Festival on June 20th. I'd like to also extend an invitation to you to come out on June 13th, excuse me, the weekend before, to watch a documentary, the little things that run the world documentary on the importance of pollinators and how we can support them. So that's another way to learn more, to get involved and continue the momentum that we are creating here. Thank you. - Haley, where is the 13th? - Oh, at the Water Center, Water Resources Education Center. Thank you. - Got it. Thank you so very much. Thank you. (audience applauds)

15:19 - Okay, let's talk about the great outdoors month with Josie and Nisha. Southwest Washington includes nationally significant landscapes, such as the Gifford Pinchot National Forest, Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area, and Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument. The city of Vancouver stewards more than 1,600 acres of parkland across 90 parks and 20 natural areas. The National Get Outdoors Day is on the second Saturday in June during great outdoors month. It encourages everyone, especially youth, to enjoy nature and the health benefits of being active outside. Local state and federal partners will offer free access and special invites to everyone, especially newcomers, to visit the public lands.

16:17 Outdoor recreation is a key economic driver in Vancouver and Southwest Washington, supporting local jobs and small businesses across tourism, hospitality, retail, and recreation services, strengthening the regional economy and long-term economic vitality. And in June 2026, during great outdoors month, community members are encouraged to enjoy local activities like hiking at Beacon Rock State Park, fishing in the Lewis River, paddling on Vancouver Lake Regional Park, and exploring city of Vancouver's 20-mile trail network. Now, therefore, I, Anne McEnerny-Ogle, Mayor of Vancouver, Washington, do hereby proclaim the month of June as great outdoors month in the city of Vancouver. Josie and Misha?

17:13 (people chattering) - Thank you. We are happy to be here on behalf of the Lower Columbia Nature Network, a coalition of partners ranging from local governments to community-born nonprofits, all working together to make getting outdoors accessible for everyone. We are incredibly fortunate to have a wealth of natural spaces here in Southwest Washington. Of course, there are the most famous and iconic spaces, national and state parks, refuges, and other public lands, that we're so proud to have close by,

18:13 yet equally breathtaking and important and perhaps most impactful to our day-to-day lives are the green spaces, large and small, spread throughout and stewarded by our community and local city, county, and port staff. Time and nature isn't just a recreational luxury. It's a necessity that builds community, supports physical and mental health, and should be a daily part of everyone's lives. So for the entire month of June and beyond, we invite you to support your neighbors to find accessible ways to get outside, unplug, and explore, whether that be an hour's drive or a few minutes journey from your front door. There are many spaces and events waiting to connect us, and communities are working hard to make nature accessible to all, whether the barrier is transportation, an entrance fee, finding a space that works for your body, or connecting with the group that makes you feel safe.

19:11 I promise there is such a group and a place, and if you can't find it, reach out and we will help. And lastly, please remember not only to care for the land when you visit, but also to care for each other. We all connect to nature in different ways and have so much to learn from each other as we work together to make our communities healthier. So thank you to the entire Vancouver City Council for your continued support of policies and green spaces that keep our communities active and connected, and for letting us address you today. - Thank you, Josie, great job. Again, hello, mayor, council staff, community. Hayley Heath, I work in the Vancouver Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Services Department, and we're representing them today. I also manage our community garden program in addition to nature spaces and volunteers who support public space stewardship.

20:10 So during the Great Outdoors Month, we celebrate how parks, recreation, and cultural services, together with other public agencies and community-based organizations, bring Vancouver's values to life by connecting people with nature close to home. Through parks, trails, natural areas, outdoor recreation, and community events, we create opportunities for residents to enjoy the outdoors every day. Access to nature, we know, improves people's health. It strengthens communities, and it supports a more resilient city. By making the outdoors welcoming and accessible, we advance Vancouver's values of livability, equity, sustainability, and community connection. Thank you to the Lower Columbia Nature Network, to their partners, and to all of you for being stewards to our outdoor areas and making them accessible for all in our community. Go out and visit some parks, please. - Thank you.

21:10 (audience applauds) Our last proclamation this evening is Moms Demand Action for National Gun Violence Awareness Day and Allison Duncan, are you with us this evening? Thank you, Allison, let me read a little here. Whereas every day, nearly 130 people in the United States are killed by gun violence, and more than 200 are shot and wounded with an average of more than 19,000 gun homicides every year. Whereas cities across the nation, including Vancouver, are working to end the senseless violence with evidence-based solutions. And mayors, council members, and law enforcement officers, in partnership with local violence intervention activists

22:06 and resources, know their communities best. They're the most familiar with local criminal activity and how to address it, and are best positioned to understand how to keep their communities safe. Whereas gun violence prevention is more important than ever as we see gun violence continue to impact communities across the country. Whereas by wearing orange on June 5, 2026, people across the United States will raise awareness about gun violence and honor the lives of gun violence victims and survivors. Now therefore, I, Anne McEnerny-Ogle, Mayor of Vancouver, Washington, do hereby proclaim the first Friday in June, June 5, 2026, as National Gun Violence Awareness Day in the city of Vancouver, and encourage all community members to support their local community's efforts

23:06 to prevent the tragic impacts of gun violence and to save lives. Alison?

23:21 (audience member speaking faintly) - Hello, my name is Alison Duncan, and I'm a member of Moms Demand Action. And on behalf of Moms Demand Action, I would like to thank Mayor and the Vancouver City Council members for helping us recognize National Gun Violence Awareness Day, Friday, June 5, 2026. National Gun Violence Awareness Day is annually, the first Friday in June, and marks the beginning of Wear Orange weekend.

24:21 Wear Orange originated in 2015 to mark what would have been Hadiya Pendleton's 18th birthday if she hadn't died from gun violence in 2013. She was shot and killed on a playground in Chicago. Her friends commemorated her life by wearing orange the color hunters wear to protect themselves and others. Every day, around 130 Americans die from gun violence. We do not accept this tragically high number, unique in many ways to our nation, through education and evidence-based solutions, public safety policies can and have shown to reduce gun violence and save lives. I would encourage everyone listening to Wear Orange this coming weekend and think about what actions you can take to help protect you, your friends, and your family from the scourge of gun violence. Thank you again for allowing us to be here today. - Thank you, Alison.

25:15 (audience applauding) - That concludes our proclamations for this evening. Brings us into community communication. The cards that I have are all for the public hearing, so I will save those for item number nine. Having no other testimony, I'll close the community communication on the consent agenda, bring it back to the counselors. Counselors, you have eight items. Are there any items that you would like pulled? Item number six. Any others? I'll entertain a motion to approve items one through five, seven, and eight. - Move to approve, Paulson. - Paulson, seconded by?

26:15 - Second by Perez. - Perez. Ms. Dollar, do you want number seven red? Do you want number six red? Okay, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. - Aye. - Opposed? Motion passes. Counselor Fox, item number six.

26:47 - All right, item number six, there's a few things happening. One of them in reading the staff report was really to align the funding schedules so that the grant contracts end in the same period instead of being staggered, which totally understand and support that idea. What I was wondering about, and maybe this is definitely not a question to be answered today, but maybe something to think about, is the way that the description of these two programs are described just by numbers of beds. And so it looks as if when you're spending $300,000 to support an 18-bed program and $300,000 to support a 44-bed program, there seems to be, you know, I'd say an imbalance

27:45 in perhaps the outcomes without more information as to why one program is providing us with 44 shelter beds and the other one is only providing us 18. And so I'm wondering if a metric of beds doesn't accurately reflect the services that we're receiving as well. So that's a question too, if that makes sense. What is, I guess, what is the difference in the services perhaps that are being provided? - Hi, Samantha Whaley, Housing Programs Manager, and I'm here with Kimberly Curley who manages these contracts. So both agencies requested way more funding than we were able to award them. And so this is just a fraction of the costs that go into each program. And we'd be happy to provide the numbers that they serve each year. - So the staff report said they were serving one women's shelter, 18 beds and YWCA was serving 44 beds. - Correct, I thought you were asking about the number of people that they serve,

28:45 but we can provide that as well. - Well, what I was asking is the staff report only said that they were serving that many beds and it doesn't say what other services might be part of that contract because the cost per bed would be quite a bit more for the women's shelter than for the YWCA if we were only factoring bed count. So I'm wondering if there are other services that the women's shelter is providing that maybe YWCA is not. - What I'm saying is that YWCA receives a lot of other funding to support the 44 beds and the $300,000 for each program doesn't serve the full cost of those programs. So I can report back to you on what the actual costs are for both of those programs, but the 300,000 isn't covering the cost for either one. - Oh, okay, I'd appreciate that more information, thank you. - Thank you. - Any other questions or comments on item six?

29:42 Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion. - I move to approve item six. - Fox, seconded by Hanson. All those in favor say aye. - Aye. - Aye. - Opposed? Motion passes, thank you very much. That concludes the consent agenda, brings us into the public hearing. Item number nine. Do you wanna announce? - Mayor, I'm gonna go ahead and recuse. - Thank you. Councilor Hanson recuses himself and will step out.

30:28 - This is an ordinance adopting the Our Vancouver 2026-2024 Comprehensive Plan City of Vancouver Zoning Map and Vancouver Municipal Code Title 20 Land Use and Development Code, updating and amending the City of Vancouver 2026-2045 comp plan called Our Vancouver Repealing and Replacing the City of Vancouver Zoning Map and Repealing and Replacing Title 20 Land Use and Development Code of the Vancouver Municipal Code, providing for severability and an effective date. Staff, please. - Good evening, mayor and council. My name's Rebecca Kennedy. I'm the deputy community development director for the city and I'm joined by Mark Person, who's a senior planner in our department as well in the development review division and we are part of the team that led the comprehensive plan map and code update on behalf of the city and we're here

31:28 to give you a brief presentation tonight and answer any questions you may have. So comprehensive plans guide growth and development within the city and other cities who do them for 20-year time horizons. This one goes from 2026 through 2045. Our last plan, as you know, was updated in 2011. Much has changed since then. Demographically, economically, in terms of the situation related to housing and so has state law. It's changed significantly. So we have worked to address all that in the comprehensive plan before you tonight. It has 10 chapters plus an introduction appendix and has targets for what we think is most likely to happen in terms of population growth by 2045, which is 81,000 more people. That necessitates 38,000 new housing units to address our existing deficit as well as future need

32:27 and then 43,200 jobs to continue to provide robust employment opportunities for our community. Here is the updated land use map and zoning map that council endorsed via resolution in December of last year. This maps our new zoning districts across the city and our new code that you're reviewing tonight as well applies a fully new development code to the entirety of the city. It has 10 zoning districts. Those districts have a minimum density and a maximum height. They also regulate form through the allowance of different building types and there's still a use table that says what uses are allowed or not. It has many detailed elements, obviously, but some things that are key regulations that people have been very focused on include buffers between zoning districts, tree conservation and adding to

33:26 and supporting our tree canopy goals, making sure that pedestrian environment is good and that buildings support a robust and comfortable pedestrian environment, providing some allowances for density exemptions in the low scale and medium scale neighbourhood if an existing single family house is there today, removing all parking minimums outside of a very few specialised uses and then we've got a subset of updated overlays that we've applied across the city. So we have been before you nearly 30 times throughout the last three and a half years. We are recommending that council approve the ordinance adopting our Vancouver 2026 through 2045 comprehensive plan, the updated city of Vancouver zoning map and updated Vancouver municipal code title 20, land use and development code, setting an effective date of 60 days from today, which is July 31st, 2026. I just want to note that our work doesn't stop.

34:26 Comprehensive plans are designed to adapt and be flexible, as is the Growth Management Act. We will continue as we always have to have an annual review programme where we can look at comprehensive plan and zoning changes annually. We anticipate that we will not have gotten everything right and that the next year or two will be busy as we get feedback, as we review that and update it and refine and fix and learn and adjust and adapt to new things. We do anticipate and what we've experienced in the past is that when you update your plans and maps, change occurs incrementally over time as individual property owners make decisions about what they want to do with their property. And again, we can make changes every year. So, I also just want to quickly thank, there was many, many people across the city worked on this plan, but I do want to just call out the project management team internally. In addition to Mark and myself,

35:26 that included our Assistant City Attorney, Becky Rude, sorry, Deputy City Attorney, Becky Rude, Chim Choon Ko, who's a Real Estate Project Manager in the Economic Prosperity and Housing Department, Brian Snodgrass, Dominique Martinelli, and Meredith Herbst from Community Development. These are the folks who met weekly for four years working on all aspects of this. And I just want to express my appreciation for the team and the can-do attitude of doing a big lift and taking it one step at a time. So, with that, I'm happy to take questions and discussion and that's the extent of our presentation. - Thank you. Councilors, you have any questions of Ms. Kennedy right now?

36:10 Okay, I'll go ahead and open up the public hearing. And we have five different microphones there. When you approach the microphone, you'll notice that there's a little rectangular box in the center that you can tap and your green lights will come on. Let's go ahead and have Jason Cromer, Sharon Peavey. I believe it's Kevin Calliston. And Mary Kelts and Nelson Homburg. Come on up, there's another microphone up here. Thank you. Jason, go ahead. - Okay, hi, my name is Jason Cromer. I'm a homeowner here in Vancouver. Yeah, it's been a long time coming

37:09 and I just wanted to say, well, first off, I hope you accept the comprehensive plan as is and how it's presented to you and has been. And just a huge thank you to Rebecca Kennedy and her team. It's an enormous project, you know, that span like she's mentioned over four years and probably longer than that. And it's not just a project that sounds or feels good, it's a project that looks at in detail and objectively what problems we have today with city planning and how to address those. And not just looking at a micro level, but also a macro level, taking in real world examples from our state, country and abroad as well to figure out what we need to do to address the issues we see today. When I look at the plan, it solves so many issues. I would say the overwhelming majority of the things

38:06 that people talk about or discuss and some maybe even counterintuitively. So things like homelessness through building housing, solving traffic issues by increasing density, increasing pedestrian, bicycling and transit access, reducing our debt, reducing taxes in the long term by building fewer and wider roads. These are things that have incremental and negative feedback loops in the long run. The list goes on. This is a plan that's comprehensive like the name states in addressing many of the issues we see today. I just got back from a trip from Belgium, the Netherlands, which I guess you could regard as the peak implementation of urban planning. And I was in a town called Leuven in Belgium, population about 100,000 people, but they have implemented what I see in the comprehensive plan. So a good density infill,

39:05 they've gotten rid of car access throughout the city. And what you get is more small businesses. So more economic value per square foot or per acre. You have a community that's safe, that's quiet, that's active. I've never seen so many small businesses and so much liveliness in an area before. And if you come back here, it's sort of like a ghost town and you wonder why it's because we have parking lots everywhere, wide roads, and everybody's far apart. This solves this in the longterm, not something we've seen in a few years, but in the longterm by increasing density, taking advantage of infill and giving people more of a community access, things to walk to, things to bike to, also things to drive to, but just a plethora of choices. And ultimately that's what I see in the comprehensive plan. So choices for everybody, solving real issues and really making community for everybody here. Thank you. - Thank you. Sharon.

40:05 - Yes, my name is Sharon Peavy and I just found out about the details of this coming here today. So this is the testimony I've prepared. I'm the director with AMCO, Statewide Association of Manufactured Home Communities. Our purpose is to promote, represent, preserve, and enhance the rights and interests of manufactured homeowners in the state of Washington. Through communication, education, negotiation, and preservation of our communities, we aim to educate legislators about affordable housing and promote sensible prop policies for manufactured homeowners. Recently AMCO was a part of a coalition of homeowners and others who fought for the passage of HB 1217, one of the strongest rent stabilization statutes in the country. We desperately needed to pass this bill. A round table meeting in Olympia with interested policy makers, representatives from manufactured home communities,

41:02 discussed rent increases from around our state. When an 85 year old lady tearfully described her thousand dollar monthly rent increases and how she was preparing for the streets, we were all in tears. My space rent alone has gone from 525 to $1,417 monthly in about seven years with no amenities. Now we are most interested in overlay zoning, knowing that if we were repurposed, we would lose our homes. Our homes cannot be moved, so we would lose our investment. Most of our communities house older people who need stability, not the fear of being replaced. Our city has the power to grant overlay zoning and preserve options for home ownership. These special owners have faced so many obstacles for peaceful living, which I do not have time to address. Tenants asked if they had the chance to live in a manufactured home community again,

41:59 all answered no, not the way things are now with monopoly takeover of our housing. My experience, I hate to say this, with the city was being ignored when our petition wanted safe and easy access into our community at Cascade Park on First Street. We now have one way in and one way out for 200 people or more, more details to follow on that hopefully. I do hope in future planning that more consideration for our communities is planned as funding opens up. We hope to utilize the bill we fought so hard to pass, the opportunity to purchase and run as a type of co-op and own our own land. That was the dream we had hoped for. Thank you so much. - Thank you. Kevin. Counselor. - Just before she leaves, I'm not sure if you're aware that part of this comp plan update includes a manufactured housing zone.

42:59 And so I encourage you to take a look at those provisions. - Yeah, I'll skim it over real quick. - Okay. - Way down here and whew, okay. - I didn't want you to leave not knowing that that was a new zone that we're putting in place. All right. - Kevin. - Thank you. My name is Kevin Callahan. I have the pleasure of serving on the advisory council for the area association on aging. And of course, looking at taking care of the needs of senior citizens, housing is a very important component of that. The council may not be aware, but you have 16 manufactured home parks in your community with over a thousand housing units. Even under your new manufactured housing zone, a property owner can come in and request a change of use on that zone and we'll have to be justifying the change. But I want you to understand how critical it is

43:57 to preserve the existing affordable housing that those housing units provide. We would refer to them as a manufactured housing and it's not mobile homes because these structures are not mobile. They're not gonna be moved. And if a park is going to be closed, the property owner only has to offer the tenant half of the assessed value of the structure. So if your home is worth $200,000 on the market and it's worth say $100,000 as the structure itself, they can offer you $50,000 and you're out the door. It's critical that these housing units be preserved. They are irreplaceable and it's very important that the city treats them as you would as if it were publicly funded affordable housing because that's what it is. It's affordable but it's being made affordable by the fact that the homeowners themselves purchase the homes. So they are the partners. They need the help of the city

44:57 in order to maintain their safety and their viability. We think that the current provisions in the ordinance which require the property owner to justify why it is that it's no longer viable may be appropriate or not, it will depend on how it's interpreted and how the arguments are made. And we will certainly be present to try to defend the rights of property or the tenants when those questions come up. But I think it's important to recognize the fact that those housing units have been provided by the property owners themselves and they are being threatened by the likelihood that they could be reused for another purpose. So we would urge you in adopting the ordinance which we support to be very vigilant in making sure that when a property owner comes in and wants to change the designation that they can fully justify that

45:55 and that perhaps there can be negotiated additional benefits to the tenants so that they are not left high and dry if that's the case, thank you. - Thank you, Mary. - Good evening, Madam Mayor, city councilors, staff and citizens. My name is Mary Keltz, I'm a long time resident of the city of Vancouver. And I thank you for the opportunity to comment on the proposed comprehensive plan update. In an effort to be concise, I put this on paper as follows. If implemented as drafted, the plan would allow many more homes than are needed to meet even the city's goals, the city's own established goals. That fact is reflected in the final environmental impact statement. As a result, Clark County is taking less responsibility for new homes and planning for less density

46:53 in neighborhoods next to the city. To be specific, the county is preparing to delete 8,000 housing units from the plan update covering Vancouver's urban growth area. The city plan is filled with words about equity and positive community experience. However, it calls for greater inequities in who will bear the impacts and expenses from increasing population. It puts too much pressure on existing city neighborhoods. Demand and prices for homes are likely to increase as people search for more relaxed environments in places where Vancouver is expected to grow. Important opportunities for planning may slip away quickly. We are seeing examples of that today with Oregonians moving to Clark County to escape some aspects of Portland.

47:52 If we are serious about planning for the next 20 years, we must have an equitable and effective plan for increasing the supply and variety of housing throughout our urban area while containing the cost when possible. It now appears we are failing to give adequate attention to the urban growth area and thereby prevent undue strain on the city. I've spent many hours and considerable effort to understand the plan and its implications on the ground. So I hope you will take my comments very seriously and find a appropriate way to modify the situation when possible. - Thank you. Nelson? - Good evening, mayor, council members, and staff. My name is Nelson Holmberg, a native and lifelong resident of Vancouver. I'm here tonight representing the nearly 800 members of the Building Industry Association of Clark County.

48:51 I'd like to quickly acknowledge our Government Affairs Committee chair, Eric Galimo, for his assistance in preparing this testimony. We want to express our sincere appreciation for the tremendous amount of collaborative work that has occurred over the past several years to bring us to this point. Staff, council, stakeholders from across the community have invested countless hours into developing the comprehensive plan and the associated code updates before you tonight. While we have not agreed on everything along the way, we greatly appreciate the outreach, communication, and willingness to engage in meaningful dialogue throughout this process. The BIA supports the proposed Vancouver Municipal Code Title 20 updates and recognizes the importance of increasing housing opportunities and addressing affordability challenges in our community. We also commend staff for their innovative approach in responding to council's direction

49:50 and advancing policies intended to encourage greater housing density. With any innovative effort, there will likely be unintended consequences and we accept and expect that. Our hope is that council and staff will continue to see us as a partner through issues proactively as they become known rather than waiting until challenges become difficult and stressful to work through on tight deadlines that can be expensive. As council moves forward, we ask for a continued commitment to the collaborative approach that has brought us this far in our common interest of producing housing that's affordable, available, and accessible for our community. We would like the assurance that staff and council will continue monitoring how these regulations perform in the real world and remain willing to adjust if needed if unintended consequences emerge. Several provisions warrant close attention,

50:48 including the minimum density requirements for the MX and RA zones, which may be difficult to achieve on many sites. We also believe additional flexibility is needed in lot and dimensional standards, particularly for smaller parcels where geometric and economic constraints can make development challenging. Equally important, supporting infrastructure, road, and utility standards must be aligned with the new code to ensure that projects can move forward. Ultimately, success should not be measured by the density allowed on paper, but by the number of homes that are actually built and occupied by Vancouver residents. We remain supportive of the proposed code, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with the city of Vancouver in the months ahead to ensure these policies achieve their intended goals of increasing housing supply, affordability, and choice. Thank you for your time. - Thank you very much. All right, let's have Tom Knappenberger,

51:48 Jim Williamson, Claudette Derricotte, Josh Harmon, and Paul Burgess, please. Tom, go ahead. - Thank you. My name is Tom Knappenberger. I'm a Northwest Vancouver resident of 26 years, former president of the Northwest Neighborhood Association. There are many things I could say about this proposed update to the city's comprehensive plan. I've been following it intensely for six months, attended meetings, given testimony to the City Planning Commission, written letters to the editor, and spearheaded a special briefing for the Northwest Neighborhood Association. Like peeling an onion, I've learned of the many complex layers of this plan.

52:46 Throughout, my guiding light has been this. People need to know what this is, what this is about, and weigh in. It's too important. This comprehensive plan update is nothing less than a complete and total redesign of the city of Vancouver. It will change everything forever, period stop. Every home in our city will be affected sooner or later, but do people understand? Yes, I know, 2,000 contacts made, hundreds of inputs, dozens of briefings, but how many of those came after the plan's details were revealed on February 19th? Most of those touted comments were aspirational. Would you like to live in a safe city? Would you like to have a park nearby? Would you like to walk to coffee shops? While Rebecca and her crew, excuse me, have done their best, this seminal fact remains. Very few in our city of 200,000 are aware of this city redesign. If you went down to the farmer's market

53:43 and asked 100 people, only a handful would know the plan. If you asked that handful what it means for their neighborhood, you'd be lucky to get six. So I'm pleading with you as I did with the Planning Commission. This Northwest Neighborhood Association is asking, take more time so more people have a chance to learn and comment. To help with that, consider a summit of neighborhood leaders. Very few of the city's neighborhood associations have weighed in. That should alarm you. Hold a public meeting and bill it plainly as a chance to learn and comment on the rezoning of every home in Vancouver. This is way too important not to engage our city further. In the interest of all of us, our children and grandchildren, take the time to do this right. - Jim. - I second that wholeheartedly. I can't believe that Rebecca said there had been, I've been to quite a few city council meetings

54:42 and I didn't know they'd been up in front 30 times. The awareness of the comprehensive plan is nil in my neighborhood. I pedaled around for 20 minutes and asked seven people if they'd heard about it. None of them had. They all said they'd look it up. Looking it up is not an easy thing to do. You look at the brochure that's downstairs with the receptionist, it's that thick. And a lot of it is puff and it's kind of window dressing, it's very nicely done. And I respect the efforts of the city planners to try and make a better, more livable city. But the citizens, the homeowners, the residents, the renters have absolutely no idea of what's coming down the road.

55:38 And as a guy who lives across the street from a new private equity rental house that used to be a family home, the four new cars on the street in the plug driveway, it's not the same neighborhood. I recognize that I'm just a nimby, but why don't you wait for us to die and then change the social fabric of the cut? That's all I got. - Claudette. - Thank you for letting me speak. This is going to be much off the cuff, but I agree with these two gentlemen. And this is my first time at a Vancouver City Council meeting. My name is Claudette Deracati. I and my husband, who is a Vietnam veteran, Bobby Deracati, live at Cascade Park Estates,

56:36 which is a manufactured home park in unincorporated Clark County. So my colleague who just came up, Sharon Peavey, and also a resident of our park, we have been working with the Clark County Council to save our manufactured home parks. And the reason that I'm here to try to say something is because they have informed us that at some point, we will be annexed into the city of Vancouver. So what my concern is is when, like Sharon said, we came together tonight and we were trying to figure out what this ordinance was, and I agree. I think you need to take more time and we want to know that we are going to preserve the houses and the manufactured home parks that we have. That is what the Clark County Council is trying to do,

57:33 but the concern that I have is that if you annex us, all of the parks, we've got about 35 or 36 in unincorporated Clark County, and then we have about, what is that, 2,000 units with many more people, we can easily lose our homes. And so I would, the Clark County Council is about to implement and start working on their 20-year plan. And as far as we know, we are still protected to be and maintain our manufactured home parks. Some of them, they're gonna make changes and they're gonna have some interesting things to help the people that are in parks that are like super rundown, like the one on 99 that's the evergreen habitat for humanity is going to try to make homes.

58:32 But we need, we're just, we're elderly people, we live in a 55 and older community and we need to preserve our homes. And so I'm not sure, I don't know a lot about the plan, but I think that these gentlemen are right. To change everything and you need to take more time and ask for more information and input from the community. God bless America. Thank you. - Josh, no thank you please. Josh. - Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name's Josh Harmon, I'm resident of Vancouver, also a lifelong resident of Clark County for context. I urge you to pass the plan tonight as is, recognizing that most of the changes it makes fix significant problems that have existed in our community for a long time

59:31 that have made it environmentally unsustainable and increasingly unaffordable to people living in the community. I know there's a mention of how when communities change it can make it unlivable for existing residents, but also communities can become unlivable also when they don't change at all, when they don't adapt to the needs of their community. Where I grew up in Salmon Creek there was no way I could grow up there today, because my parents never made enough money to live in that place, and that's something that's close to my heart. Now that's Clark County, but Vancouver has largely the same problems. For a long time overly abundant parking has caused us to build things where three quarters of a site is parking and not some actual use, whether it be commercial, whether it be residential, and it's made it difficult to walk places,

1:00:30 it's made it environmentally unsustainable, and it's created this housing crisis that we have now, which then feeds homelessness, which then feeds all kinds of other problems that are very expensive and detrimental to our community. I also wanted to make sure to thank Rebecca and the other community planning staff for their work throughout this process. I attended multiple of the workshops and appreciated learning about the plan and being able to give input, and I found them very professional and also very professional and patient even when they were fielding questions from people who are very passionately opposed to the changes in this plan or for what they want their community to look like going forward. I also urge it to be approved tonight, recognizing that it's important,

1:01:29 given Washington state law, that we adopt a new comprehensive plan now. We're already about six months overdue from the original deadline, as I understand, and the only reason, as I understand, we have not faced penalties for this is because the state department that oversees comprehensive planning recognizes that our staff are making a good faith effort to comply with state law, changes that have happened over several years, and that we're not playing games with actually working toward those goals. Thank you. - Thank you, Paul. - Good evening, mayor, council members, and staff. My name's Paul Burgess. I'm the executive director of Fourth Plain Forward, and I'm here to support the adoption of the draft comprehensive plan. We see it as an equitable plan, one that's built to keep the city accountable to the whole community. The plan identifies several areas of highest need, Fourth Plain, Fruit Valley, and areas of East 205 amongst them,

1:02:27 and commits to prioritizing investment to them first. For many years, nonprofit organizations have worked in these communities, and it's critical that the city prioritize this investment behind the work they've been doing. I want to highlight four specific areas that really stand out as both well-designed and are much needed. On displacement, the plan prioritizes anti-displacement strategies in the areas most vulnerable to market pressure ahead of market investment. It backs that with tenant protections, emergency rental assistance, relocation assistance, right of first refusal, and community ownership models that help residents stay in their homes. With 53% of Vancouver renters cost-burdened, those protections are needed. On housing, the plan allows middle housing, duplexes, triplexes, cottage clusters across all lower medium-scale residential neighborhoods. That distributes growth across the whole city rather than concentrating it in the corridors that have always absorbed it in the past. That's an equitable approach, and it's the right one. On climate, the plan directly invests,

1:03:26 directs early investment in tree canopy and green stormwater infrastructure into the areas identified as highest risk. Again, the Fourth Plain Corridor, Fruit Valley, and East Vancouver. These are the same areas with the lowest tree canopy, some at just 9% against a 28% citywide target. These neighborhoods also carried the greatest health disparities. Directing investment here first is the right call. And on economic opportunity, Goal E04 directs place-based investments to neighborhood business districts like the Fourth Plain Corridor, supporting the small businesses that anchor those communities and keeping wealth circulating locally. That work is needed, and it aligns with what we see on the ground every day. These are sound, equitable commitments. The plan is robust, well-considered, and has been created with a broad and effective community engagement process. Fourth Plain Forward encourages the council to adopt this plan. Thank you. - Thank you. Let's have Chatham Olive, Ben McCarty,

1:04:23 Shabana McEwen, Don Sankey, and Patrick Itagwami. And while they're coming up, Ms. Dollar, do you have our two remote individuals? Okay, let's go ahead and have Deb Swoop. Swoop, okay. - Okay, I've just given Deb, there we go. - Good evening, Deb's here. Hi, my name is Deb Swoop, rhymes with hope, but we get a lot of swoop. (laughs) I am chair of the Vista Del Rio Community Club, which is the resident organization of the Vista Del Rio Manufactured Home Park, south of 34th and north of 14th, right off of 162nd, or near 162nd.

1:05:22 We have 213 houses and about 315 people. So per Kevin Callahan's comment, if there's roughly 1,000 units in the city of Vancouver, we're at about 20 plus percent of those houses at 213 homes. We are a 55 plus. I cannot impress upon Rebecca, everyone who helped, how very excited and how much we support, I support this zoning change. We will, for the first time, have a manufactured home district that is zoned. Yes, as Kevin pointed out, would it be possible for someone to petition you to change our use? Yes, but my sense is with this plan in place, that is going to be much more difficult

1:06:20 than it is right this minute. At least that's my prayer. Many, many of our residents here of our 350 are not only over 55, many, many of them are over 80. This is almost a 40 year old park and it is pristine. It is well maintained. I encourage any of you to come and drive through here. We would love for you to see this beautiful place we live. And if you have any other questions for me, I am always available, but just know that you have my absolute, from my toes, appreciation for the manufactured home zone. And in fact, the entire approach of this new zoning plan. And I just thank you for your time, your diligence, your listening ear that is not found in all political bodies

1:07:15 from as we all know, sadly. And I get, I continue to get the sense that Vancouver and the subcommittees and all the different departments genuinely care about their residents and this city. And I cannot thank all of you enough. And with that, I will sign off. Thank you, Catherine, Catherine Chutty.

1:07:51 - Okay, Catherine now has permission to unmute and show our video. Catherine, are you there and able to unmute?

1:08:18 - It shows her online, but she's not able or she's not unmuting, so I'm not sure if she's having issues on her end. If you want to. - We'll move on and come back to her, please. Chatham Olive, please. - Good evening, mayor and members of council. I'm Chatham Olive co-chairman of the Southcliff neighborhood association here tonight to express our neighborhoods profound disappointment that council is now on the cusp of considering the adoption of zoning changes designed to eliminate single family lots in the city of Vancouver and specifically the Southcliff neighborhood. Should these changes be adopted, we intend to communicate to the members of both the Clark County association of realtors and the building industry association of Clark County, the following quote, "This notice is to inform your members that all lots

1:09:17 in historic Vancouver neighborhood of Southcliff established in 1954 are and shall remain single family lots as intended and mandated by the CCNRs originally written by the developer, the housing authority of Vancouver and recorded in the Clark County auditor records. The Southcliff neighborhood association has been advised by legal counsel that in spite of the fact that the city of Vancouver is now adopting a rezoning map, newly designated some 50 lots in Southcliff as quote, medium scale unquote, that new designation does not override any portion of the original CCNRs, which state that quote, "No building shall be erected, altered, placed or permitted to remain on any lot other

1:10:15 than one detached single family dwelling, not to exceed two stories in height from the street level." Unquote. Legal counsel has also advised that Washington's growth management act does not apply to subdivisions whose covenants containing such limitations were in place prior to July 1st, 2023. This has been upheld by the Washington Supreme Court. That case involved resolution of an inconsistency between a neighborhood covenant providing for single family lots only versus a requested rezone for more density. In this Washington Supreme Court case, the single family covenant was upheld. Please be advised that the Southcliff neighborhood association stands by and will defend its CCNRs, which limit development on any lot

1:11:15 to one single family structure. According to the Washington Supreme Court, this covenant is a contract enforceable under Washington law. Sincerely, the Southcliff neighborhood association. Thank you very much. - Ben McCarty. - Good evening, my name is Ben McCarty. I'm the president of the Northwest Neighborhood Association. I live at 906 Northwest 51st Street in Vancouver. I'm here once again to advocate on behalf of my neighbors. We recognize that every neighborhood in Vancouver has a role to play in helping the city to meet its current housing challenges. More housing is needed, more housing types are needed, more density is needed, and many areas of the city, including my neighborhood, welcome many of these changes. However, those changes do not need to come with the downsides caused by the overuse of medium scale zoning. The city has many paths to meeting its housing targets, including several that have been presented to council as part of this comprehensive plan update process.

1:12:15 If you choose to approve this plan as currently presented, you'll be choosing a path that puts the interests of wealthy developers and private investment firms over those of minorities, wildlife, middle class homeowners, potential first time home buyers, and senior citizens. It is a path which places significant strain on infrastructure, economic pressure on existing homeowners, and will force potential first time home buyers to compete against mega developers and investment firms for the right to purchase homes. I'm thankful that many of you on this council and members of staff appear receptive to these concerns, and acknowledge that this plan is far from perfect and want to see its impact monitored and changes made if needed. The city believes that infill will be incremental and that there will be limited negative impacts. However, there's no plan here to ensure that outcome, only a hope, and hope is not a strategy. There are no avenues for appeal for maximum infill development authorized by this plan. Landowners can by right simply begin construction on maximum infill following a meeting or two with the planning department. Meanwhile, my neighborhood and many others

1:13:14 must simply hope 75 foot tall walls of metal, wood, and glass will not overwhelm transportation infrastructure, limit access to critical green spaces, or have unforeseen adverse environmental impacts. We should always hope for the best case scenario, but plan for the worst. But there is no plan here for a worst case scenario of large swaths of land being locked away by the wealthy from potential home buyers, or for maximum infill development overwhelming local infrastructure and causing significant negative impacts on transportation or critical services. There is simply hope that any changes to the plan can be made in time to avoid negative impacts that they would otherwise be unable to stop. The city believes that hopes and wishes for incremental impact and infill will be enough to avoid the negative consequences of this plan. With no other options left, I can only hope that you're right. Thank you for your time and your consideration. - Thank you. Shavonna McEwen? No. - Good evening, mayor and city council members.

1:14:13 My name is Shavonna McEwen and I'm the executive director of the Southwest Washington Equity Coalition. Thank you for the opportunity to address you tonight. SWEC has been proud to work alongside city staff for the last two and a half years to help shape this comprehensive plan. City staff did a phenomenal job gathering community input and community members showed up, shared their experiences and demanded that this plan reflect the full Vancouver. I'm especially proud of the collaborative work that city staff, SWEC and several other organizations led by and for communities of color did to ensure the inputs from residents of color was intentionally adopted into this plan. As you all know, our city has grown 39% since the year 2000 and by 2045, we'll need 38,000 more homes and over 43,000 new jobs. This plan sets our city up to meet that growth in an equitable, intentional and sustainable way, ensuring that Vancouver remains a safe and welcoming place for everyone.

1:15:09 This plan is transparent about the housing crisis we face. Rents have risen over 90% since 2012. Vancouver's rents now exceed Portland's and more than half of renters are cost burdened. The plan responds with policies for more middle housing, anti-displacement strategies in the most vulnerable communities and expanded pathways to home ownership, including community land trusts and shared equity models, which can begin to repair the legacy of racial covenants that locked generations of families of color out of wealth building. I believe this may be one of the most progressive plans in the state for facilitating affordable housing for all. From 2010 to 2020, the number of people of color in Vancouver grew by 64% and today black and Hispanic households face housing cost burden rates at 52 and 45% respectfully. This plan names those numbers and commits to targeted investment in workforce development, small business support and neighborhood business districts like the fourth plane corridor,

1:16:08 all in alignment with decisions you all have already made, like recently investing funds to support small businesses impacted by ICE presence in the corridor. Finally, as climate change, climate mitigation and disaster gentrification become ever more pressing realities in the Pacific Northwest, this plan directs climate investment into the neighborhoods with the greatest health disparities and lowest incomes, which also face the highest combined climate risk. That is what equity looks like in practice. As some of you look toward your last few months on city council, I hope you take some time to reflect on just how much you've pushed the issue of equity and racial justice in our city. This plan is yet another step in the long path you've walked over the last several years. I urge you to adopt the Our Vancouver Comprehensive Plan. It is a product of real community engagement, particularly from those who have too often been left out of these decisions. This plan is a promise and as some of you

1:17:07 move on to other elected seats, we'll be here to help make sure that it is kept. Thank you. - Don. - Good evening mayor, council and staff and members of the public. My name is Don Steinke. I live near the Vancouver City boundary in East Clark County. I'm speaking mainly about chapter six, the climate chapter of the growth management comp plan. In 2019, Catherine Chutti, Ilona Steinke and I met with five city council members to advocate for climate action and I'm here just to support, to continually support your work in that direction and kudos to your staff. I support the plan they produced. I'd like to comment on three parts of the plan. State law requires us to add 38,000 new homes

1:18:05 within the existing city limits in the next 20 years. How are we gonna do that? The law also requires that we avoid sprawl as much as possible and to provide housing for all income levels. That means build up, not out, everywhere possible or tiny homes. State law also requires us to reduce vehicle miles traveled per capita. Increased density will enable people to live closer to where they work and shop. In chapter six, you encourage renewable energy and batteries. I support that. In particular, I support mid-sized grid enhancing batteries the size of shipping containers. Their cost has plummeted in the last three years.

1:19:04 They can be distributed in neighborhoods on top of commercial buildings and in church parking lots wherever the grid is constrained. Last year, 99% of the new energy added to the grid globally came from wind and solar combined with batteries. This is not because people were concerned about climate change. It's because it was the most cost effective way to provide what they needed. That works everywhere except west of the Cascades. Takes a little longer here. So thank you. That's all for now. - Thank you. Patrick. - Good evening, mayor and council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is Patrick Anugume. I'm the chair of the planning commission for the city of Vancouver. The planning commission voted to send both the vice chair and myself to speak with you regarding the comprehensive plan and our recommendation. The vice chair spoke with you on May 11th and I'm here today.

1:20:02 I wanna speak to what the conference of plan process represents. This plan did not arrive before you quickly or quietly. It has been years in the making with planning commission and city council sessions, workshops, community forums, open houses throughout. More than 2000 individuals provided feedback along the way. In the city of our size, the level of participation is significant. And I know because I've seen a lot of the participation we get at the planning commission, which does not reach that level. It reflects a genuine effort by staff, the planning commission and its council to hear from the people who live and work here. I raise that because I know that some feel the process moved too fast or that their concerns weren't fully heard. And we should take that seriously, but we should also be honest about what went into this work. This was not a plan written in a back room. It was shaped by thousands of voices over multiple years. The plan was revised at multiple points in response to feedback from the commission, from this council and from the public.

1:21:00 On April 28th, the planning commission voted unanimously to recommend adoption. I also want to make sure everyone in this room understands something about how comprehensive plans work in practice. This is not a final product. This is not a final vision for how the city will look. The planning commission reviews amendments to the comprehensive plan development code every year. The plan that you adopt tonight, we hope you adopt tonight, sets the direction, but it will continue to evolve as our community changes, as market conditions shift, and as we learn what is working and what needs adjustment. That is not a weakness of the plan. That is how good planning works. You set a strong foundation and you stay engaged. The planning commission makes that commitment to stay engaged with the many sections of its purview, as I'm sure the council does as well. I want to thank city staff, particularly in the community development department for their dedication throughout this process. I want to thank my fellow planning commissioners for their time, their rigor,

1:22:00 and their willingness to disagree constructively when the work called for it. The Vancouver planning commission unanimously recommends adoption of the comprehensive plan. Thank you. - Thank you. Do we have Catherine Chutty online? - I've given her the permission. Oh, I think she is. - Good evening. Can you hear me? - Yes, we can. Thank you. - Okay. Good evening, mayor, council members, staff, and members of the public. My name is Catherine Chutty. I'm a longtime resident of Vancouver, Washington, and I'm here representing the Alliance for Community Engagement of Southwest Washington. Thank you for your diligent work on the city of Vancouver's comprehensive plan and for your community outreach during this extensive complicated process. Our Alliance for Community Engagement Southwest Washington appreciates this opportunity to offer our support. ACE supports the city's comprehensive plan. Vancouver's population has boomed,

1:22:59 growing by 39% since 2000 and adding 56,000 new residents. Vancouver is projected to need 38,000 more homes and 42,200 new jobs by 2045. As our city continues to grow, we need thoughtful urban planning that absorbs future growth and density equitably throughout the city. We appreciate that the climate and environment chapter of this comprehensive plan continues to strive towards Vancouver's ambitious climate goals of citywide, greenhouse gas emissions reductions of 80% by 2035 and carbon neutrality by 2040. We applaud specific actions that will contribute to this vision, like the city's green building policies, the city's safe streets initiative, and the goal of 27% tree canopy. We understand that this plan will prepare the city for more extreme heat days, wildfire smoke, flooding, drought, and severe winter storms.

1:23:57 Prioritize climate investments in neighborhoods with the greatest exposure and lowest adaptive capacity. Advanced tree canopy, green infrastructure, habitat restoration, and protection of natural systems support compact transit-oriented growth to reduce vehicle miles traveled and greenhouse gas emissions. Move Vancouver toward carbon neutrality through cleaner buildings, low carbon transportation, renewable energy, waste reduction, and sustainable development. And finally, address environmental health disparities tied to air, water, heat, noise, and pollution exposure. Allowing duplexes, triplexes, and other forms of middle housing throughout the city is also important. Vancouver needs a wider variety of housing options so that all residents can afford to live here. Everyone should have equitable access to green spaces, climate resilient infrastructure, green building practices,

1:24:57 and cleaner, more accessible forms of transportation. These are not improvements that should be made in just a few neighborhoods, and we really appreciate that this plan does pave the way for that. So thank you all for your consideration. - Thank you. And that concludes our public hearing. I do not have any additional cards or individuals that have registered to vote to testify this evening. Thank you. Rebecca, you've heard several questions come up tonight. Could you talk a little bit about the manufactured homes and that the parking zone, manufactured park zoning, now what it is and what we are going to look at in this particular comp plan? - Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

1:25:55 So currently existing manufactured home parks, there's 16 in the city and they have our existing zoning districts applied to them. So there is no, currently there is no manufactured home park district. They may be zoned R17, they may be zoned R35, they may be zoned R9. And the only protections that we offer to them are those that are enabled or required under state law, which is, as I understand it and I'm not an expert on this, a right of first refusal and notice and moving expenses, I believe. In contrast, the new manufactured home park zoning district in the new code would allow only that use, only manufactured home park developments in that code or in that zone, unless a property owner could demonstrate

1:26:51 that it is financially infeasible to continue that use. If that is the case, then they could apply for a zone change to a different zoning district that allowed more uses and that would go through our typical zone change process, which includes review by the County Planning Commission and final approval by the Council. And staff would review that against the eligible, or the applicable criteria. So from our view, this is much more significant protection for manufactured home park developments as a use in recognition of the fact that they provide some of the most affordable non-rent restricted or publicly subsidized affordable housing in the city and in many communities across the country. - And does our code define manufactured homes?

1:27:48 - It does, Mayor. Mark Person, Community Development Review Planner. Our current code defines manufactured homes very extensively but we worked on the update and we are saying anything modular or manufactured. And again, for land use planning, we're not looking at how the building is built, we're just in these areas we are saying only manufactured or modular. Housing is permitted in these 16 zones unless something is permanently affordable and then we'll allow more housing types. - Thank you so very much. Councilors, do you have questions of Mark and Rebecca? Councilor Paulson. - Thank you, Mayor, thank you, Mark and Rebecca.

1:28:45 I really just wanna underscore and give you an opportunity to respond to some of the issues that were raised in the testimony that we just heard. So there was testimony given that because we have over allocated housing within our UGA, the county has taken housing out of our UGA, the VUGA in the county as an accommodation for that. Can you speak to that and then as a follow up to that, can you speak to what control, if any, we have over what the county does in our UGA? - Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to address this. So it is not straightforward so I've kind of apologized in advance but so folks can understand the county and the city use different methodologies and models for estimating our capacity. Our housing capacity models are closer,

1:29:42 our employment capacity models are very, very, very different. The city estimated that we needed at a minimum 38,000 housing units, that was a minimum target. Our preferred alternative we estimate allows for somewhere around 44,000 or a little over 44,000 units. The county estimates the city needs, that the city has capacity for 40,000 units. So they are estimating we have capacity for 2,000 more units than they say we need. So yes, that has a very small potential impact on the distribution of units around the county, not just in the Vancouver urban growth area but in all of Clark County and what's assigned to the various jurisdictions and urban growth areas but not immeasurable impact on the VUGA. And I will say the county is subject to HB 1220 which is the requirement that you not only show

1:30:39 that you can hit certain capacities for certain numbers but that you realistically demonstrate your zoning would allow for housing in different income bands. I cannot speak to the sort of methodology behind their zoning code and how they've crafted it but I can say what they are required to do under state law. And again, we had a minimum we were aiming for. That's the minimum we need. We have hit that and exceeded it a little bit. We have accounted for various things like critical areas, places you can't build but also the presence of CC&Rs that would effectively not allow building of much more housing and so we believe in our model. So I guess in conclusion I would say that this has not significantly affected

1:31:37 the numbers assigned to the VUGA, the Vancouver urban growth area by the county in their latest capacity yields that we spend. - Thank you. And other than providing testimony to the county, we don't have any control over what they choose to do or not do within our urban growth area, do we? - Correct. The only thing that we can do is collaborate and coordinate. We sit on the, there's a group of, it's a technical coordinating committee. We provide feedback but we do not have control over the overall population estimate the county selected which was higher than the median that we believe is the most accurate from the Office of Financial Management or how they implement the HAPT tool from the Department of Commerce or how they calibrate their capacity model. Those are decisions under the Growth Management Act that are made by counties. - Thank you.

1:32:33 One thing I think is important to underscore here as we're on the cusp of making a decision about this plan, we've cited a lot of numbers, 38,000 people moving here or 80,000 people, 38,000 housing units, 46,000 jobs. Can you just talk a little bit about a high level about what the Growth Management Act requires of the city? Do we have a plan to actually build 38,000 housing units and where they're going to be built? - No, the city doesn't build housing. So what the Growth Management Act requires us is to have local land use regulations that allow for the private market to realistically build those units and feasibly to build those units. But we don't build those units. That's not the way we provide housing in this country. It's privately provided. So we do our best to be realistic

1:33:32 and ensure that development feasibility is a big part of how we think about land use regulation. Because again, the city isn't gonna build it. We don't know where it's gonna get built. Much of the land that could be built will not be because individual property owners will just decide they don't want to, which is private property rights. And so again, it is demonstrating capacity given all those constraints to theoretically allow the private market to build the housing. - I think the key word there is capacity. You start with a population forecast. We have a few assumptions that follow on how many jobs you want if those many people move here, how many housing units we'll need if those many people move here. And then the burden that we have is to show that we have the capacity to accommodate that growth should it arrive and that it's feasible to do that. - Correct, and I will say that it's 100% correct. In the past, we just had to show capacity for the specific numbers,

1:34:30 regardless of the type and expense of that housing. We are now obligated to show capacity for smaller, different types of housing that could result in housing that is affordable at different income bands, which is new and harder. - And I'm gonna get to a question in a moment that speaks to some of those new state laws. But you mentioned CC&Rs. We had testimony about CC&Rs and the protections that they provide. You just mentioned that we do our best to recognize where the CC&Rs exist and to make assumptions about what really won't happen in those areas. Why would we, knowing that there's a CC&R in a historically significant neighborhood, why would we choose to up-zone anyway? - Well, a few reasons. In some of our neighborhoods that have CC&Rs, there were also racial covenants that existed. And under HB 1110, we cannot decline to up-zone those areas regardless of their pre-existing CC&Rs. If there were racial covenants,

1:35:28 we must not exempt them from potential adding units and potential increases in capacity. The other reason, which this council has consistently articulated, is that we want to apply and spread growth around the city somewhat evenly. And so we don't know in the future where areas with CC&Rs will choose to change them or there will be action to remove them from some property. And so we simply apply it based on our standards, honestly, or our framework, honestly and consistently around the city without taking into account CC&Rs because we want to achieve that even distribution and not preclude more even distribution in the future. And we deduct from our land capacity analysis. We make a deduction specifically based on CC&Rs, their prevalence and our assumption that they will limit housing production at some level

1:36:28 because most will stay in place, though some may change. And we don't want to preclude that. - Thank you. There were comments made about the degree of engagement with neighborhood associations and neighborhoods. Could you speak a little bit about what that communication strategy looked like over the course of these last four years? And in particular, was it focused in one particular timeframe or was it spread fairly evenly throughout the entire planning process? - It was spread evenly throughout the planning process. So you'll recall that there were several key milestones. The first phase was educating people about the process, talking to them about their aspirations for the future. The second one was really focused on the land use possibilities and mapping and getting to that preferred alternative. And then the third one was on the plan and the code and the substance of those things. And at each phase where we were making big pushes with many other constituents and groups, we were also making big pushes

1:37:27 with neighborhood associations. So that included emails directly to every neighborhood leader whose contact information the Office of Neighborhoods has. And recognized neighborhood associations presented at many. We included information 10, 15 times in the Office of Neighborhoods monthly newsletter and in a lot of other platforms that neighborhoods typically engage in. We presented several times at the Vancouver Neighborhood Alliance, which is a non-city affiliated umbrella group for neighborhood associations that specifically engages their leadership. So we went anywhere we were asked and we basically communicated multiple times at every key phase that we were available to come. But we didn't just do that with neighborhood associations. We did it with community-based organizations

1:38:24 and youth and schools and transportation advocates and climate advocates and many other people as well. - Thank you. My final question, and you alluded to this a little bit earlier. Can you just talk a little bit about what the deadline is and what it has been and has it been extended and why has it been extended and where we stand today vis-a-vis any kind of deadlines or state requirements? - The initial... So the periodic review process timelines are different around the state. So the sort of first batch of jurisdictions in this periodic review process were the 2024 jurisdictions and that included Seattle and King County and all their jurisdictions. They received a six month extension from their plan to be done in July 1, 2024 to December 31, 2024. We are part of the 2025 cities and we asked for a similar extension

1:39:23 and received it from the legislature. And the rationale for both those requests was that the legislature made a bunch of new laws. We started our periodic review processes, which take a long time. And then every session they made more and more laws that required us to do more and different work. And so we needed more time. We are now approximately six months behind our initial, our final deadline that included the six months extension, which was December 31, 2025. I think it is accurate to say, and we've had ongoing coordination and collaboration with commerce and communication that they have seen that we are making progress as has the community. So you have not seen efforts, for example, like you've seen with Clark County Council to take them to the growth management hearing board on their delays and force them into a specific timeline. 'Cause I think we've been showing progress, but yes, that is correct. We are overdue. - And just so that folks have an appreciation

1:40:23 for how we're doing with the rest of our cohort. So other cities and jurisdictions that are in that 2025 cohort that you mentioned, how many of them have delivered a comp plan and how many are still working on their comp plan? Do you know? - I do not know for every other county that is applied. I don't think it's very many, if any. There are still several 2024 jurisdictions who have not adopted. But in Clark County, no one else has. - So we are not unique and not yet meeting the deadline. And we may, in fact, when all has been said and done, be among the first to complete our plan, even though we are. - Correct, we are definitely among the first of the 2025 cities and likely less late than almost any other city or jurisdiction in the state so far. - Less late. (audience laughing) - Thank you, those are my questions.

1:41:24 - Councilor Stover. - Thank you, Mayor. Rebecca, what is the primary form of transportation in Vancouver today and does that significantly change under this plan? - So most people today, their primary mode of transportation is driving a single occupancy vehicle. This plan does not have targets for modes split. Our transportation system plan does and it's adopted by reference, so you can imply those. But our targets are, they're not large. That doesn't mean they're not ambitious because it is hard to get people to change behavior and it is also expensive to build the infrastructure that allows them to change their travel mode and feel comfortable and safe doing that

1:42:23 to build out the frequent transit that allows people to really rely on it. So this plan does not anticipate that somehow driving will not be the dominant primary mode in the future. It simply envisions a world where people could make the choice to drive shorter distances or take some trips not driving in the future 'cause the stuff they need is closer to where they live. - Great, you started, council passed a preferred alternative some months back. - Endorsed. - Endorsed, excuse me, endorsed. Was there something concrete to look at before that? - Yes, so if you're speaking directly to the comment about when the code concepts were known, we were looking back at it and we were sharing

1:43:23 the code concepts during the land use possibilities work which started in early 2024. The first code concepts workshop was in October of 2024 and these big provisions around minimum densities, heights, no parking were included then. - That's it for me right now, thank you. - Thank you. - Councilor Fox. - All right, sounds like we've covered a lot of the questions that were raised during the testimony but also say reading through all of the letters that were submitted to council over these many years we've been looking at this and then particularly the last few weeks we've had quite a lot of testimony that's been submitted entirely appreciate those

1:44:21 that both sent us letters saying how much they love this new proposal and those that also told us why they didn't and I would say just as a general for those of you that maybe haven't read every comment as a council member I appreciate when you are very descriptive of your reasons why and I'd say there's hardly a single letter that said just something like I hate it, don't adopt it or I love it and adopt it so I just want to raise up the fact that we had some very well written comment letters that were sent to us on this proposal. I'd also want to mention another kind of observation I made as I was looking through the letters and listening to comments tonight knowing that everyone here on council brings a different lens. We haven't all grown up in one singular neighborhood in Vancouver for our entire lives and so we bring

1:45:18 a lot of perspectives to our work and one of the perspectives that I bring to this council is that I really have been raised in a mostly urban environment, was raised in a downtown, I've chosen places to live throughout my life that have been in very urban areas as well and so my perspective would be that I tend to really enjoy being in some of those vibrant, mixed use neighborhoods, walking through those parts in town when I go to other places and that is a perspective that I bring, not that I'm not listening to folks that value more of that singular use neighborhoods that we've heard tonight and I understand too that change isn't, especially change that you don't choose is a very hard thing to swallow perhaps but just hopefully one of the takeaways that folks have heard tonight for those that might have maybe a fear or just don't want

1:46:17 any change period, no fear, just that's their choice would be the takeaway that these really are private property decisions that happen, there's a lot of market factors in play if a particular lot next to your home is going to transition to something that has more intense development so just really understanding these things don't happen overnight and there's a lot of other factors that go into those decisions of each individual property owner before they might decide that they want to add ADU to their property or something more intense like a triplex or fourplex or something so just kind of taking that away tonight would be change is actually fairly slow even though it might seem fast if we make the decision tonight to pass this comprehensive plan, the other piece I wanted to just raise is I wanted to share again I've said it

1:47:14 many times on this dais but I do work for the Washington Department of Commerce, I work for the growth management services unit but I don't have any authority over the city of Vancouver's comprehensive plan proposals, there is actually in this case actually no approval authority by commerce, they simply review for consistency with the laws that have been explained tonight so I just want to put that out so that would be why I can fully stand here in my capacity as a city council member and I can also say why I love this comprehensive plan that's before us, one of the things that I find amazing and this is probably just being a planner in the world but every comprehensive plan has to be internally consistent so each one of these chapters has to work with the other chapters and so we're not just here talking about housing tonight or changes in a residential zone but we're also talking

1:48:10 about our transportation, planning, our roadways, we're talking about how our parks and our trails work with all of these places, we're talking about climate change and we're talking about economic development which we've heard folks talk about and each one of these all work together and it's amazing and it's a spectacular piece of work and I am very proud of our staff for putting all of this together and final note is just a raise up that this action tonight if we approve it would be replacing our entire title 20 which is our zoning code and again stressing that I am a complete planner nerd, it is exciting as heck to see this code be transformed into something a lot more understandable. For those of you not in this world, when you see a development table that has like 20 or 30 footnotes, you know there's a problem and so this update reduces

1:49:08 all of those footnotes, it just makes it a lot more readable, it turns it into what we call a form-based code system which has been explained many times but we've got these really cool things like build two lines and we have new codes around tree planting and landscaping and buffers and it's going to be very interesting to see how everything is applied and we'll really serve our city for the next 20 years so thank you, I wish I had like hats or something, I was going to bring cupcakes and that fell through so thank you so much staff. - Thank you, this comprehensive plan is a defining moment for our city, one that positions us to thoughtfully manage growth, expand opportunity, strengthen our neighborhoods and build a more sustainable and connected

1:50:05 community for generations to come. I love that our city is like a learning organization and as we move from planning to implementation, I believe it's important that we continue to hold community conversations and be in dialogue. We heard a suggestion of a neighborhood summit and I think that's a great idea, to continue to learn about the comprehensive management plan and also it provides the opportunity to raise the awareness of what's inside the plan, the intent of that. It keeps our residents engaged and it creates an opportunity or the safe space to continue the dialogue especially if we are to track unintended consequences and to learn as we implement it, I believe that just because we finish a comprehensive plan, that we should not also stop continuing to work with our neighborhoods.

1:51:04 So if there was an opportunity to take that idea of a neighborhood summit and as we move into implementation, invite our neighborhood leaders to continue to learn about our comprehensive management plan and do some real time tracking of its implementation. - Councilor Harless. - I was taking, Council Member Harless, I was taking notes as well as people were speaking and my notes were identical and so we definitely have addressed all of those, so thank you and yeah, just really proud of the moment that we're in right now. The communication and engagement work that's been done as different individuals and organizations have come to me and asked, oh is this in there? I'm like, yep, we already got it, like we're on it or oh, let's have a conversation and then we add it. It's been a really engaging and meaningful process for everyone that has participated and I've really valued

1:52:03 the work of our planning commission in particular too and the amount of work that they've done. And I just want to express gratitude, so thank you and it's been great running into staff when I'm just out and about in community at all these wonderful community events that we have had over the years. So it's been great chatting with them out in community spaces too, thank you. - Any other comments? Councilor Stilford. - Thank you mayor, I wanted to give everybody a chance for questions before I came back. So I am, thank you to staff. I'm excited for this moment we've come to. I've shared before, spinning my 20s in Vancouver,

1:52:52 Clark County, I did not find this a welcoming place. I found this a place very difficult to connect, to find mentorship, to find social connection. I don't think tomorrow that that will occur, but I think this sets us on a pathway towards some place where somebody in their 20s and I would say somebody in their 80s can better feel that social connection. That being said, that it doesn't mean I am not myself without anxiety. I live in a 1912 home in the only neighborhood in the city on the state designation of historic places.

1:53:49 There are things about my neighborhood, stylistically things about my neighborhood that I love. That being said, my neighborhood is the original version of this plan. This is what Vancouver was. From my, I can walk out my front door and I have multiple duplexes on my street. I go to the second story, I can look out and I see an eight story apartment building. There are cottage cluster apartments. All that exists in my neighborhood. And my entire neighborhood gets zoned medium density, which is much higher than what I was advocating

1:54:48 for when we were doing our mapping out your sizes. So I say that in that I too feel anxiety. I feel anxiety with the change that this plan presents. But the city doesn't belong to me. The city doesn't belong to any of us in this room. The city belongs to generations that are yet to come. And we owe it to those future generations to being uncomfortable in order to make sure that they have a place to live, a place to call home, a place to find community with one another. So I'm again, very, very excited that we are here tonight. Thank you. - Thank you.

1:55:47 That reminded me that my neighborhood is over 100 years old also. We have numerous duplexes. We have at least three quads in just six blocks from my house. We have a fiveplex, very cute, almost like a cottage cluster if you would, apartment complex, and people would refer to my area as single family homes. So as I look at it with the number of ADUs and everything else that are there, we have neighborhoods and neighborhoods change, they evolve. But we've read the letters, we've read the emails, we have attended neighborhood meetings and business meetings, community meetings with you. Thank you so very much for four years of land use.

1:56:43 We all take those comments very seriously. But at this point, I think we're ready to move on from your four years of work. Let's meet at least one deadline for us. And I'll entertain a motion. - Fox, seconded by-- - Stover. - Stover, roll call vote, please. - Council Member Harless? - Aye. - Perez? - Aye. - Fox? - Aye. - Paulson? - Aye. - Stover? - Aye. - Mayor McEnerny-Ogle? - Aye, motion passes. Thank you, staff. That is the end of four years. (audience applauding) That concludes our business portion of the meeting. We now go into communications from the council. Councilor Harless? - Skip. - Councilor Perez? - Yes, the Heights area

1:57:41 where we were to celebrate the shoveling of the dirt and breaking ground was pretty cool to be at. And I especially loved learning how always-- - Individuals, I'll ask you to take your conversations to the hallway, please. (audience chattering) - I enjoyed the opportunity to speak with some of the developers for that area. But most importantly, that is the highest point in the city that you can actually overlook the areas in the mountains. So I'm excited to see what that's gonna look like and good job and excited for us in the future there. - I really wanted that backhoe to do the first shovel. That would have been fun. Councilor Fox, Councilor Paulson, Councilor Stover? - I'll pass tonight. - Councilor Hanson? - Mayor, I was greeted on Saturday

1:58:40 by Vancouver Fire Department volunteers going house to house, working in teams of three, dropping off-- - Did you get your hot pad? - Yeah, my hot pad, I got my hot pad. I got a nice cup and I got a measurement.

1:59:01 Utensil and some great information. But what I really got was and what I really wanna point out is the good work of these volunteers because they're going around and they're not just dropping off bags and leaving. They're asking questions and they're waiting for answers and they're engaging. So really wanna just give them props for going around doing what they're doing and a great job at it. That's all I have, Mayor. - This is Fire Corps. They've been doing this for over 10 years, federal money, and it reduces the hot spots in our community and it's been very successful. - And was really, do you have a working smoke detector and if you don't, we wanna help you to get one. So I thought that was fantastic. I just wanted to point that out. - And don't use candles that are actual flames and don't put your cigarettes out in the soil in the pot on your front porch. - In the bark dust, who would've thought? - Yeah, that's a no-no. - Wow, good job. Yep, there you go, okay.

1:59:58 Counselors, this Friday we have a bell tower that will be working at 11 o'clock if you wanna come and see the Glockenspiel open up. Esther Short Park on Saturday has lemonade and Saturday was also Mothers Against Drunk Drivers. We have a blood alcohol content law of 0.08. The push is for 0.05 and Utah is the only state in our nation that has 0.05, but 150 nations on the globe have 0.05 for a reason and when you start looking at that three hundredths of a percent difference and the mental and physical abilities

2:00:55 that you lose with that, it's tremendous. So let's have a further conversation about that possibility in the future. Blood alcohol content, see you at the bell tower. Yes? - Just one correction, the bell tower is 1130, not 11. - Oh, I was supposed to be there at 11 though. - Okay. - Join me, join me at 11. City manager? - Yeah, mayor, I've got a couple of items that I just wanted to reflect back with the council that I noted for follow up tonight. So going back to the workshops on Inspire Vancouver, the council had asked for an opportunity to see the names for the folks that were being nominated for the grant review committee prior to the Cultural Arts and Heritage Commission approval asked for, and this came out of that discussion but not specifically related to it, what I'm calling a grant program report, which is just identifying the city's grants, what the timelines might look like, what those processes are.

2:01:55 On the park funding one, I noted down some items that you needed for more detail to help make decisions, one of which was more detail on how the benchmarking has worked for both expenditures and FTEs, detail and then additional details that would factor into any future inter-local agreements for the revenue sharing breakdowns, making sure that we factored in things like park impact fees, access to open space and lack of backyards and employment factors, and then how do we address the needs of the current system while we're planning for growth in shorthand, making sure that we can fund what we already have while then taking a look forward. And then on the transportation improvement plan, these weren't necessarily related to the plan itself but as we gather data on 164th and 14th as identified by Councilor Perez, and then once we have information available on the potential realignment of the Fruit Valley Freight Corridor.

2:02:53 Then the last one I had was just information on the total budget for the projects that were funded by the Affordable Housing Fund. So did I miss anything? - Councilor Fox? - Yes, I'd say the distinction on the, when we're talking about the grants portion of the discussion, we were talking more about having a comparison of all of the committees that we formed to review grants. So it wasn't, at least that's what I was hearing and agreeing to is that we wanted to see what their authorities are and what grant programs that they are making decisions or providing us recommendations for, kind of a side-by-side comparison. And then also under the tip, I had asked staff to get back to me on some of the St. John's, St. James Corridor improvement projects. - Okay, anything else? I think you got it.

2:03:53 Good, thank you a lot. - Thank you. - Nina, anything? - Nothing from legal tonight, Mayor, thank you. - Okay, then we, it is 8.33. We are officially done with the City Council business. We will turn off the videotapes. We audio tape our community forum that we will have right now. So let's go ahead and give CVTV a few moments to turn that off.